From quinn@fazigu.org Thu Dec 18 13:56:07 2003 Return-path: Envelope-to: quinn@localhost Delivery-date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:56:07 -0500 Received: from requiem ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost ident=quinn) by requiem with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AX3Jf-0002hm-01 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:56:07 -0500 X-Original-To: quinn@netsville.com Delivered-To: quinn@netsville.com Received: from requiem [127.0.0.1] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.4) for quinn@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx84.postini.com [12.158.34.72]) by corpmail.netsville.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B4724BA3B for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from source ([66.100.236.130]) by exprod5mx84.postini.com ([12.158.34.245]) with SMTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:56:00 PST Received: (qmail 69033 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 18:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moo.ghostmoo.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Dec 2003 18:58:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:58:10 -0400 From: "Quinn@Ghostwheel" To: quinn@netsville.com Subject: Ghostwheel Message(s) 2040 - 2093 from *ideas (#504) X-Mail-Agent: Ghostwheel (moo.ghostmoo.org 6969) Message-Id: <20031218185600.6B4724BA3B@corpmail.netsville.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on requiem X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=2.60 Status: RO Content-Length: 35541 Lines: 971 Message 2040 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 20 14:13:11 2003 CDT From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Hi. So heres how it works kids, about 20 people abused the 'potential' from RP, by pretending to be RPing but what they were actually doing was just repeating the same commands, so this goes on for about 5 months or so.... Then, this weekend I get sick of it, and guess what I do? I bring out all my alts, and I do it for about an hour, and suddenly, guess what, it's illegal, and if I didn't stop I'd have gotten Tarterus'ed, again. So as you can see the double standard, naturally when the cheater starts cheating again, it must be wrong. So in truth the idea of RP potential, was fine and dandy, but flawed in that it just allowed people standing around who were in fact talking about RL, or spoofing their happy triggers, resulted in a lot of bitter irate roleplayers. I'll continue in the next post, so I can actually collect an idea for modifications. -------------------------- Message 2041 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 20 14:40:27 2003 CDT From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: So. The game is currently in a state of flux, and I truthfully wouldn't be against a reroll under simple conditions. First of all, the compensation in question that grants us more 'points' should be based on character age, thats the only fair method I see about it since this would even help some of the older players like Xrara, Elendil, et all. Now, the problem with this type of system, is that inevitably it requires an eventual reset of stats. So again, I don't see a problem with a reset, but how can we safeguard so we don't have to do it again? Sparring is fine how it is, I like the delays based on those who are average. But I agree with Mirg about eliminating the max levels that discount points above a certain point. Third step, I don't think we need to remove the 'roleplay' points entirely. Just make a maximum per day roleplaying gained that is like say, 30. 30 a day, 210 points a week. I'd honestly feel thats a pretty good amount. The current system allows some people abusing it to get like, 100 points or more in a single day. I think in the hour or so I made about 20 points with my other alts, heh. -------------------------- Message 2042 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 20 14:49:43 2003 CDT From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Hey Quinn. Any time of the next coming week a good time for you to sit down and talk with players? I know you're busy, but having a general meeting couldn't hurt. -------------------------- Message 2043 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:36:07 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) With the baby and work, I rarely have time to sit down and talk, and meetings generally haven't been very useful, but I'm listening to the discussions here. -------------------------- Message 2044 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:36:31 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) In particular, I'd like an example of a particular skill which appears to be b0rked wrt the min/max averages rules. -------------------------- Message 2045 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:40:09 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Well Quinn If you'd notice the current top 10 of players, they have somewhere in the 5000 and 6000 range of skills. This in itself is due to an abuse, which by the very nature of the system, does not allow other people to 'catch up' due to the 1000 cap. So if you want a list of skills, it's basically everything from dodge, shock, bladed, blunt, to even medic and focus. I'm still annoyed that non mages are boosting focus in this manner, thus making them more powerful then some of the real ones, but I won't complain anymore then I have to. -------------------------- Message 2046 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:41:54 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Min/Average/Max There are 39 players that are over the 900 max on bladed. I think all the combat stats are about the same, this is just to many people to take out of the sample ? H -------------------------- Message 2047 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:42:48 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Focis Don't see Focus as just a Mage skill, it would come into play with nearly anything that needed concentration. H -------------------------- Message 2048 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 27 12:46:24 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Adepts are like Merlin. How many stories have you read where Merlin's spell was deflected off a warrior? -------------------------- Message 2049 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Oct 29 17:06:30 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Leveling. Reset. Etc. The previous reset essentially lowered stats to a certain point, then converted the extra 'values' into potential that made things more even over all. Now my obvious question is give the current difficulties, even a 'refund' of current points would probably still leave things imbalanced. If a reset were to happen, setting us all back to Square 1, what steps would have to be taken that would prevent cheating in the future? Thats the first question. In my opinion before the reset would even happen, assuming it would, we need to spell out current code abuse, and for fuck sake, say you're not allowed to do it. In a nutshell, this means, you may not @spoof yourself, or whisper to yourself. It also means you can't have a macro of twitching, yawning, tails wagging every few minutes. You might think that the current system has this 'benefit', but I'm sorry, it was designed to reward people for roleplaying, not socializing, not chatting, its for ROLEPLAY. ;p I think we should all have a meeting, since this is only my opinion. I want this game to be enjoyable and fun for everyone, and so that people can do things. When I'm trying to play a bad guy, and at each turn I find myself in a position that is not only pathetic failure in every regard, it limits my choices when the current trend of players seem to suggest that coded solutions are the best policy. Thats it for now, but I'd like to say that the fact that things have become this out of hand, it's making some of the older players including me feel disgruntled to the point of not even bothering to roleplay. The game should never be in a state where it makes people who login regular feel as if they're only solution is to stay indoors, and roleplay in small clicks that eventually concludes with them doing little of nothing. -------------------------- Message 2050 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Oct 29 17:12:24 2003 CST From: Mirg (#11887) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Is it just me... or are more people active then have been in ages, with more things going on then in what seems like years? Mirg -------------------------- Message 2051 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Oct 30 16:17:13 2003 CST From: Rynaldus (#24133) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @pages Or something similar. A way to read pages that get lost in spam or idle disconnects. -------------------------- Message 2052 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Oct 30 21:40:15 2003 CST From: Oberon (#22725) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Sparring I've long said sparring is the death of any MOO, however slow that death is. Sparring gives IC rewards for OOC time availability. It _is_ that simple. May character may be a badass ninja cyborg who trains for most of the day, doesn't mean I OOCly have time for that crap. Does that include a code rehaul? Of course it does. But potential points gained through RP was intended to fix, or at least help, those without time to spar. However, it's just contributed more to the big Code Bug that is GW. If CS hadn't changed from sparring, it would have turned to inactivity just the same as here. Now, I'm not saying CS is the perfect model for MOOhood, but its damn close. Now if only they could find a way to remove the playerbase there... In summary, sparring bad, Oberon, pretty. -------------------------- Message 2054 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 09:47:58 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Oberon, what do you mean about CS eliminating "sparring?" Fighting between characters, or what? How would it determine that wasn't PK? -------------------------- Message 2055 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 11:32:09 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Actions for Pot I think the best way to go is just to remove Actions for pot, but if that's not going to happen, at least remove @spoofing, and tabletalk as valid actions since they're easy to hide. H -------------------------- Message 2056 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 11:44:57 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) What do you mean by removing actions for pot? I like the idea of people being able to earn potential just by playing-- the trick is to figure out if they're really playing or not. Then again, we would still have @praise for human distribution of points... -------------------------- Message 2057 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 11:54:55 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Actions and stuff Well you could check and see if the players last command is the same as the one before it, that would stop timers unless they find some way to randomize them a bit. I just don't like the fact that by sitting in a room ic and chatting about anything (including ooc stuff) you can become better at a skill, then someone who actually goes out and works it by hunting or sparing with an ahab. As for the evils of sparing, Oberon expressed, why shouldn't someone who's on more advance faster then someone who's not? H -------------------------- Message 2058 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 12:24:24 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: hmmm You know maybe what needs doing is to allow people to earn pot when in a room with another player every pulse point and just taking off any requirement other then being unidle less then 20 minutes or so, this allows any player who's ic and in a room with someone to pick up some pot with out any timers getting involved, maybe limit the amount of pot someone can get to say 30 a day + @praise to keep people from just doing it with alts in a tent, this will encourage people to actually come out somewhere for at least part of the day. H -------------------------- Message 2059 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 13:59:09 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Oberon and Heretic's stuff. First Oberon was just saying that the reason that CS is doing so well in comparison to GW is that for the most part the sparring system was entirely removed and was replaced with a system that is balanced in terms of abilities. I had a talk with Heretic, and I'm of the opinion that emote, @spoof, whisper, murmur, and that sort of thing are not able to be 'policed' properly, the thing is simple in this regard Quinn. Players are still using @spoof because even the other GM's aren't punishing them, and some of the GM's alternate characters are in fact using that sort of trigger, macro, what have you. Making it so that the pose/. verb is the only one that actually gives a bonus of potential, I think would be a good start. Afterwords, if the GM's see players who are using pose as a way to get potential without actually playing, and are in fact just jerking around, then they could I don't know, remove the ability to gain potential through roleplay? Make it feature based, because honestly, some people really don't deserve it if they're going to abuse it. Lastly, Quinn, I'd like if the GM's could come up with what I'd call 'templates' for beginners. Essentially, it would allow brand new players to have a 'average' character from the get go. An example of this would be something along the lines of a swordsman template. It'd have higher quickness and agility, with average endurance, dexterity, and lower willpower. In addition it'd have higher bladed, some blunt, and dodge and shock. I'd think around 200-300 bladed, maybe 150 dodge, and a few other odds and end skills. The only trick is to keep the same points distributed throughout all the other forms. -------------------------- Message 2060 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 18:49:54 2003 CST From: Rynaldus (#24133) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Sparring I'm pretty sure what Oberon meant was that CS has eliminated sparring as a way to advance in the game. You still still fight people, but you no longer gain points for doing it. The potential idea is good for a hardcore coded environment. If that's what we're going for, then please state it. An RPG cannot survive with such huge differences in skill. And secondly, a collaborative RP cannot survive with characters that are good at everything. That's pretty much been GW problem all along. The majority of the game cannot log on to spar every hour and RP 24/7. A responcible game will cater to that majority, not isolate it by rewarding those who have obscene amounts of time. Ryn -------------------------- Message 2061 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 31 20:35:31 2003 CST From: Augustus (#18463) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: all the ideas of late.. I'd like to say, that I think it is just crazy that the things that have been going on for so long didn't get attention until Dante decided to try it and the very first time he did, a GM who hadn't been active in ages comes on and busts him. But far as it goes, Dante's been pretty innocent in this last round of behavior. And I'm sure if you asked you'd get a 'Well, if you can't beat them, join them.' As for the rest, I think everyone should turn off their timers and start talking. Quinn can't be asked to fix things every time someone finds a bug and exploits it. We either have to decide we will hold ourselves to standards that we would wish other would treat us by or we should find something else to do. As far as GW as a rpg moo or a coded combat moo I don't know the difference honestly and I'm all for me being the only one with any stats and I know that won't sit well with anyone else but it sure would make things interesting. Fixes in the past have proved less than effective or we would not be where we are today. Anyone could of and had a chance to set a timer and sit in a room with a friend talking about soap operas and swapping love stories I suppose. It didn't take to many smarts to figure it out and as for praising no one even remember you could do it until I remembered it trying to find quick ways to get Red back up to par with where he was. But then, no one praises Red for his dashing looks or suave way with the ladies.. I can't believe it honestly but oh well.. As for the sparing issue I don't think it is an issue. Once you get to average it is an hourly or weekly boost that comes and goes quickly. It don't matter how you do that, by hunting or hitting on another player, you'll boost if you do it. And if you look at the top-10 lists you will find crazy high stated players which represent only a fraction of the population of the moo, but if you look at the top 25 list you see a lot of people who are sexually frustrated I suppose. So if you actually have low stats, pat yourself on the back and say I have a life and I must be getting some or I'd have high stats as well. And, if anyone on the top 10 list is getting sex, then I suggest we beat them very severely since you can't have your cake and eat it too. Damnit. So, I'd think long and hard before changing things too drastically to fix things that the brilliant people who play on GW will find away around next week anyhow. And I suggest people start thinking about what they are doing before doing it. I am happy to have GW and the friends I have found here and I hope they will all stick around and learn to play nice and respect each other for who they are. And thanks to Dante, Red Fang finally got his statue.. Of course he's having a hard time admiring it at the moment but it is real special to him. Yours respectfully, Gus, AKA Rob. -------------------------- Message 2062 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 1 19:09:01 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Dante was actually the person who brought up the bugs to me, so I come to praise Caesar. :) -------------------------- Message 2063 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 1 21:05:44 2003 CST From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: $ Yeah, Dante! *hugs* -------------------------- Message 2064 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 2 00:00:46 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Laugh, thanks guys. ;) -------------------------- Message 2065 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 2 19:36:43 2003 CST From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Sparring vs. pot Just a point I'd like to raise in light of some of the posts lately about sparring rewarding OOC time availability - I would personally rather have only sparring, which in my non-technical opinion, is a lot harder to code a series of triggers to have your character spar all day while you're at work/out/etc. As it is, the current "potential for being 'IC'" system can be abused in methods described before, namely @spoof/whisper triggers or OOC talking. This system is, again in my tech-naive opinion, relatively easy to code triggers/macros for, and has all ready been done. Also worth noting - if we ignore the gaining of pot points via triggers for a moment, this method (like sparring), requires you to be at your computer, typing. So, for those who prefer potential as an alternative to sparring because sparring rewards OOC availability, it's really the same thing. Therefore, since we are discussing potential alternatives/fixes/changes to the current systems we have in place, I think what first needs to be decided is: do we reward the player who has the most OOC time to play, or the player who roleplays the most and best? Once this is decided, then tailor/alter a system such that it fits with what kind of activity you are trying to promote. To address a point that Rynaldus brought up - the system should promote balance, including if necessary, a reset, so that it is actually possible to roleplay one's character, whether the system rewards OOC time or IC roleplay. Right now I think it's safe to say unless you were one of those who indulged in the triggers-for-pot scheme and now have stats in the 5000s, you really can't play a successful badass character. Which brings me to my last point (pardon the length, and thank you to those who have bothered reading this far along.) I am surprised (shocked?) that with all the allegations of trigger-potential gaining (even some people's admissions on the lists) that no one from the GM staff has said or done anything to punish or halt this activity, besides whoever it was that pounced on Dante alone. I would like to know the "official" stance - if triggering @spoof and the like is cheating (as I was led to believe ALL use of triggers was), as well as using @praise with blatantly OOC reasons given, then let the playerbase know and punish the abusers. Likewise, if this is now permissible activity, the playerbase should know, so that it isn't merely a few adventurous individuals who can take advantage of this. My two cents... -------------------------- Message 2066 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 3 17:19:19 2003 CST From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Final discussion of the state of things. Since I'm sure no one likes to hear me regular argue about the stats, fighting system, and everything that goes with it I'd like to hold a meeting of the players who are interested in the outcome of it. On a plus side, after the meeting is over, I'll shut up, hence an incentive to hold it. Mainly I'd like to have a list of topics, the purpose of the meeting is to essentially identify the problem areas that would arise after a reset of the current system. Some examples are how do we prevent the imbalances, what system is the best to use, how do we properly help new characters get started, and things like that. Since this will more then likely be almost in a debate format, it might also be a good idea to have a moderator who can sort of control the meeting. Otherwise my suggestions are evenings of weekends, anyone else have better timing that is also interested in joining let me know and we can hopefully get some really good feedback. -------------------------- Message 2067 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 3 19:15:37 2003 CST From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: A little summary of a discussion we had on public. Potential: Daily ticker that gives people 10 points for roleplaying regardless of time spent, or size of group doing so. Potential and sparring boosting stats should both have a delay, based on their current level. Potential is too 'fast'. Racial and Class based maximums, or by choice. For example, Picking a Primary, secondary and tiertiery skill. Armed, Medic, and Bladed, This would allow a person to get 1500 armed, 1250 medic, and 1000 bladed. All other skills then would be stuck at 'average'. Oldbies would thus be like 1500 bladed, based on a permanent average that newbies begin with 500. The average itself is based on class, or choice, allowing players to not be 'statgods'. In addition to this, it would also mean that recombs would have an inherent advantage to use natural weapons because their ability maximum would be like 1000 automatically, but a swordsman would only be able to ever get unarmed upto 750, and brawl upto 500 in opposite. Stats like dodge, shock, and medic would be universally equal between all players, short of taking one of the proficiencies. -------------------------- Message 2068 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 3 19:53:52 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: Quinn (#2) and *ideas (#504) Subject: Fixing things After listening to hours of talk on public I've come to the conclusion that Ghost does indeed need fixing, I suggest you fix it, don't consult any of us, Talk it over with Mulder, make the changes that you think need to be made, then just let us know how things are, MOO works best with a dictator with a clear vision of what he/she wants, So I wish us all luck and look forward to seeing what happens. H -------------------------- Message 2071 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 3 21:34:29 2003 CST From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Here is an example of the system. Keep in mind this has 'caps' in it to prevent people who are good at everything. In addition the numbers on the top half of 500/1000 means that after a reset this character, as Dante for example, would be like this. Newbies would be starting out at about half of Dante's post reset levels. Primary max out at 1750 Secondary max out at 1500 Tertiary max out at 1250 Rest max out at 1000 (1)Focus 1250/1750 One at 500, with one subskill at 250 Unarmed 500/1000 Brawl 250/750 One at 1000, with two at 500 (2)Armed 1000/1500 Whip 500/1000 Blunt 500/1000 Only one at 750 (3)Bladed 750/1250 Dodge, shock and medic are their own 1st, 2nd, and 3rd catagory Dodge 500/750 Medic 250/500 Shock 200/300 One at 250 with 1 subskill at half Ranged 125/250 Shooting 75/150 -------------------------- Message 2072 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 3 21:41:39 2003 CST From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: In addition. The above system is based on a plan that is designed to make it so that you can boost once 3 times per day. In addition if you boost in bladed 3 times, you won't be able to boost again that same day using potential. So for example, say the boosting delay is 8 hours. If you wanted to, you could spend upto 3 points with potential on bladed, then you'd have to wait another 8 hours to spend them again. In addition in a given day, you'd only have 10 points to spend entirely, but the benefit is if you even RP once, you get these 10 points. -------------------------- Message 2073 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 5 11:28:00 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) I'm down with cutting every skill rank for every player by 90%. -------------------------- Message 2074 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 5 17:49:11 2003 CST From: Yak (#20718) To: *ideas (#504) Good Call. -------------------------- Message 2075 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 5 18:27:27 2003 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) 90% would be fun. But wackystats are a symptom, not a cause. It'll only postpone for a few months more of the same while everyone engages in patented GW 24-hour sparfests. My advice would be an extensive cap system similar to Kijindei's wherein folks' stats actually reflect their IC characters. How a bard ends up with 1000+ shock is beyond me. -------------------------- Message 2076 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Nov 7 18:12:20 2003 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Blacksmithing I would like to see a working forge put into play, either for all characters to use, or a skilled character to use for others. I believe this would be a prime use for the left over slisssh poop we just cant seem to get down our gullet. This forge would be used for tempering swords, and other metal weapons, and perhaps even creating them. The way I would run this forge is have $player ask me for a custom item, such as a sword a rapier, dagger etc. and then pay me for the labor I put into it. It would get custom messages, and be designed and personalized for them. The forge could cost me some portion of the price of the item I create in it, and I could apprentice other $players to forge items as well. The forge could even cause fatigue to the blacksmith, to show his efforts in this. I can see a sword for example taking a game week to complete, based on the time the blacksmith spent working on it. Restin the blacksmith..hopefully. -------------------------- Message 2077 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 01:20:48 2003 CST From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Blacksmithing Well, there was a BlackSmith in Drach'Nal, there for $players with a past history (IE their .Sheet showing BlackSmithing skills) to set up a business/work. We did have a BlackSmith in N'Orleans that ICly forged long knives (from me) and throwing daggers (from Styx), but sadly he is now gone. I still think it is good to have $player characters that can use specific skills such as Smithing, with GM approval and partnership. A level 1 would be an Apprentice, able to create only simple items that may not have much power or would break more easily, etc, and have the weapons improve with the age of skill and the level of skill in necessary skills. A new player can start out with a skill of level 2 in the needed skills and can advance through RP and time to higher levels. An older player would have to find a Level 2 skilled character to learn from and the older player would start with a Level 0. I believe Styx also has worked toward having a skilled Black Smith character from the $players. Anyone interested in this, contact the GM's and give us a firm plan about weapons types and their times to completion, the cost and split with the GM's helping, etc. (The past Gypsy Smith received 1/2 of the cost of the sold items - FYI). -------------------------- Message 2078 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 01:22:51 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Code Blacksmithing use Tinker let anyone who wants to get good at it. H -------------------------- Message 2079 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 01:51:45 2003 CST From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) I concur(tm). Maybe I'll code some kind of blacksmithing system that uses tinker... -------------------------- Message 2080 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 12:21:51 2003 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) I was discussing this with Restin, and noted we should use cosmorocks ("iron") for any forging. -------------------------- Message 2081 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 15:57:24 2003 CST From: Fortitude (#24841) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: smithing With all the talk about smithing, I suppose this post could fit in here. It's not smithing, but it is smithing-related. I actually have code that allows players to use tools to combine objects (junk that might be found lying around, like broom handles or jagged pieces of metal) and make weapons out of them. It could be easily modified to do a tinker skill check, and a breakable weapon would also be a fairly simple thing to code, so the quality of the finished product might be dependent on your skill. If we had something like a junkyard room where players could search for weapon parts, we could basically have a system where players could make weapons, the weapons would break after heavy use, and they would have to go make new ones. But would players really want to go through all that trouble when they could just go to a replicator and make/buy an unbreakable weapon? I suppose it might be useful for making less common weapons, like javelins and slings. -------------------------- Message 2082 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 18:45:21 2003 CST From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Tinker/scavenge/make weapons This is something I have pushed for for a long time. Thanks Fort for coding it! Maybe characters can just use a replicator, now... But if we could get this breakable code (Can it also be modified to make sharpened weapons get dull?) and smithing in place, weapons from replicators could become less available, more costly? It has always seemed a good idea to allow players more interraction with their skills being utilized. As I recall CyberSphere has much the same, plus there are no replicators. There is a place you can get free clothing and/or cloth that can be made into wearable items. Whynot impliment that here? Just some ideas.. -------------------------- Message 2083 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 18:47:30 2003 CST From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Cosmorocks The use of iron/cosmorocks is great. How about using the slisssh droppings as the fuel for the forges?! Would be one way to get them out of the way! -------------------------- Message 2084 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 18:52:22 2003 CST From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Replicators VS Shop Owner-AHaBs I modified some bartenders and serving wenches/cooks with a slightly different reactor, but how about actually creating AHaBs that can sell/buy items to/from characters?! -------------------------- Message 2085 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 18:53:26 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Barter. Sounds like a good idea, we need more Falloutish type pawn shops. -------------------------- Message 2086 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 8 20:10:29 2003 CST From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Junkyards and creating weapons I imagine the Junkyard on the wheel, the ruins of Austin as well as perhaps a few of the more rundown areas of NGC would suffice as suitable locations from which to scavenge parts to make weapons. As for shopkeepers, I think it might be better to further encourage player interaction as opposed to player-ahab interaction. Also, if someone is going to code up a system (or all ready has, in the case of Fortitude's suggestion) to make weapons, might I further suggest that such a system be adapted to be able to potentially create other items. For instance, an herbalist character might be able to scavenge for herb/plant type $items and create a more effective medkit; a tech-savvy character with good ElecTech/Hacker might be able to piece together electronic $items and make better GPS units, laser pistols...etc., or even new types of items that don't yet exist. I think it's a good idea to use cosmorocks and/or slisssh poo in the process, as was suggested. Though if you're going to give cosmorocks a use, perhaps come up with uses for the other rocks (smokestones, etc.) - maybe as part of creating other non-weapon items as I suggested above. That's my two cents :) -------------------------- Message 2087 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 9 03:37:07 2003 CST From: Frap (#21837) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: generic pawn shops How about generic brothels?? -------------------------- Message 2088 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 9 15:46:13 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @renamed objects. "Someone has taken it upon themselves to use extra characters in their object names, namely the _ key. It makes sense that this shouldn't be needed with @renamed things, especially containers. Since no ones enforcing code abuse, the _ should at the very least be added to the number of things not allowed to be renamed with objects, I'm aware symbols like !@#$%^&*() shouldn't work already, so is it possible to add _ as well? -------------------------- Message 2089 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 9 18:45:43 2003 CST From: Shandryl (#24740) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: weaponsmith I am all for $players to be able to create things. I remember that Ceri worked hard to get the skill to make boomshells and put it all together. Can she also learn to make boomsticks and sell them to folks? Perhaps taking 2 weeks GW time, give her fatigue, and split with Quinn since the whole thing is his making?? -------------------------- Message 2090 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 10 14:30:08 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mage glove element air. I wrote one for lightning, but its not the proper design. I was just wondering if anyone else wanted to do a tornado-like, air-based attack message set for Nny. I'm coming up on finals, but I do think we need one. ;) -------------------------- Message 2091 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 10 23:02:54 2003 CST From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: eavesdrop on *furniture* Add a perception based ability that lets you listen to conversations on furniture in a room. -------------------------- Message 2092 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 11 22:46:04 2003 CST From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: insanity how about having it's effects be a bit more random say instead of always subtracting from your bonus, how about a 40% or so chance per roll of adding to it instead? H -------------------------- Message 2093 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 13 21:23:40 2003 CST From: Darkpaw (#24594) To: *ideas (#504) Make the stool in the Claw un-pick-up-able if someone's sitting on it. --------------------------