From quinn@fazigu.org Tue Nov 18 13:58:38 2003 Return-path: Envelope-to: quinn@localhost Delivery-date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:58:38 -0500 Received: from requiem ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost ident=quinn) by requiem with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMB3e-000475-01 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:58:38 -0500 X-Original-To: quinn@netsville.com Delivered-To: quinn@netsville.com Received: from requiem [127.0.0.1] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.4) for quinn@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx9.postini.com [12.158.34.149]) by corpmail.netsville.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 186E84BAEB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from source ([66.100.236.130]) by exprod5mx9.postini.com ([12.158.34.245]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:58:03 PST Received: (qmail 67008 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2003 18:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moo.ghostmoo.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 18:58:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:58:09 -0400 From: "Quinn@Ghostwheel" To: quinn@netsville.com Subject: Ghostwheel Message(s) 2023 - 2039 from *ideas (#504) X-Mail-Agent: Ghostwheel (moo.ghostmoo.org 6969) Message-Id: <20031118185804.186E84BAEB@corpmail.netsville.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on requiem X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 Status: RO Content-Length: 12702 Lines: 337 Message 2023 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 23 19:22:11 2003 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Random idle messages on weapons that work like tags H -------------------------- Message 2024 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 23 19:28:12 2003 CDT From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Perception Is there anything that currently uses perception? It would be really cool to see something use this skill more readily, perhaps pickpocket, or thievery. just my .000002 cents. Restin -------------------------- Message 2025 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Oct 9 14:08:36 2003 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *staff (#2560) and *ideas (#504) Subject: Min/Avg/Max Why don't we use real figures for these, or at least higher maxes might allow a bit more balance for new characters. H -------------------------- Message 2026 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 10:44:18 2003 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: POT Remove the ability to make pot by talking, posing, spoofing or anything, Remove @praise, it's all been abused, put it back to the days of if you wants stats go out and spar, if you don't want stats go roleplay. H Oh yeah, use the real average and max values of skills so new players can boost up to the real average. -------------------------- Message 2027 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 10:55:17 2003 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Clarify what "real" averages are? Do you mean lowering the discarded maximum score threshold, to leave out the superscores? As for @praise and such, I'm open to adjustment, but not getting rid of them. -------------------------- Message 2028 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 11:18:14 2003 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Pot 2 deeper into the kettle... 38 players are over the bladed max, the other combat stats are similar, This takes to much of the player base out of the average and makes it impossible to ever even dream of catching up. People routinely trade praises, some do it with out ever even bothering to talk to the other player icly so it becomes a vote for you buddy system, or use it to send a a barb at someone system (guilty of both I will admit to being). Yes people are gathering pot by setting timers, or just sitting somewhere and talking about anything but IC events, and people are actually doing a bit of role playing, you get a good number of people in a room and pot starts to flow pretty fast. Ditch @praise or police it, but I don't think it can be policed with out being there to watch every second of roleplay. That and I'm against anything that turns gm's into police. Get rid of pot for just sitting around talking, posing what ever. And maybe consider a total reset. H -------------------------- Message 2029 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 11:54:29 2003 CDT From: Oberon (#22725) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nice That's a brilliant idea. Let's remove the last vestige of RPing incentive on a dying MOO. No, no, I see where your going. It has a certain brilliance to it. Yes, who would want "talking, posing what ever" on an RP MOO when you can use triggers to fight and boost up your stats in a method so wrought with tedium that only the brainless or the highly triggered would even attempt it. And then you can use those stats to affect plots...oh no, no plots there. Well maybe you can use those stats to create a group...no, no point for having a group. Well, you can fight bigger AHaBs in a whole different brand of tedium. Or you can hunt down those three people who actually wanna RP (and would like a little stat help) and kill them. That's what I call fun. This Annoyed Flame Brought to You By The Oberon Company. "We'll Leave the Brains on For You" (tm) -------------------------- Message 2031 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 12:04:13 2003 CDT From: Ceri (#24980) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: pot, alts, praise Maybe the fact their are no ceilings in anything helps to enhance abuse of the system? IF we are gonna allow pot, then make it so there is only a certain amount a day can be earned? say 50 points or something that a room full of folks rping can get. I have seen it happen during a good tp. As far as alts interacting, with the small amount of folks we have here, it is almost impossible to keep alts from both becoming part of a tp. How about, alts playing a tp have to share any rewards (characterwise) that may incur? Pot again, one alt gets the pot, or they split the max amount during the timeframe. I know we don't want a game full of 2 typists playing all the parts in the show, but choosing who you interact with, (specially when folks time is limited) when more than 1 partner is online is hard to do. Like, I am in an ongoing story, two alts playing with 2 separate chars, all mini pieces of the main story. Both my alts are interacting with folks on the other coast. Having to decide who can play and who gets left out is hard. Running two windows just gets me in trouble. :> We already have the combat engine not allowing any perks for alts. Why not a bit of RP too? Let the players decide to ostracize alts if they desire? As far as praise, its a nice idea and a great way to tell others you like their poses, but the abuse of praise I think encourages the abuse of pot whoring. Until we have a way to slow down the climbing skill scores, nothing is gonna change. My 2 cents. Turn on the triggers now. :> -------------------------- Message 2032 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 13:11:08 2003 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Pot 3 eww what's this stuff at the bottom.. Sparing as is now dosen't take 20 minutes anyone can do it with next to no effort, the only excuse not to have stats is to set out not to have them, hell you can come out of chargen tough enough to survive 5 or 6 slisssh if you do it right, and ghost has always been the home of any kind of roleplayer despite the efforts over the years of one kind or the other trying to push the others out. H -------------------------- Message 2033 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 14:30:41 2003 CDT From: Owen (#15637) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: All things in moderation? I agree that there's a nearly unsurmountable gap rising up between the statted and the unstatted. Pot and praising is a part of that, because the systems in place are open to abuse. *All* automated systems are open to abuse, that's the nature of the beast. That being said, I would like to very tentatively suggest that perhaps instead of leveling everyone in sight, or halving every stat on the MOO, or throwing out potential and praise entirely, perhaps it would be better to take a few less-drastic steps to even things out? Perhaps if instead of lowering the bar we raised the ground? Provided more points in chargen so that characters come out of it with a baseline of stats that allowed them to take on a handful of slisssh, and possibly even survive a garden-variety bar brawl? As for trading praises, maybe a system that checks against the last three or five or seven praises and confirms that none of them are for the same players? It'd be a fair bit of coding to set that up, and won't totally eliminate trading praises among buddies but it might slow it down a bit. I honestly don't know what could be done to prevent pot-whoring. Jailing or penalizing folks for it doesn't seem like it would work all that well. Ceri's suggestion of capping it to 50 potential points per person seems like a good one. You gather pot up to 50, and then after that it stops accumulating until you go off and spend it? I don't know how much more coding it would take to implement that, but something along those lines seems more sensible than getting rid of the whole system. Yes, it's Owen pleading for compromise again. Can't we all just get along and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and all cats are gray in the dark and so on... Owen. -------------------------- Message 2034 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 20:14:10 2003 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Alts and Pot, etc. Just to throw my own two cents in - it's *very* easy not to have two or more alts in on the same plot. Don't log the other one on, or get them involved. As far as I can tell, the OOC alt interaction rules do not have an exception about 'lack of players'. As for the pot/RP vs. stats battle...yes, it has indeed been done to death. I think we have to live with both systems, but I strongly agree that the pot system could use some serious thought. It was my impression that the reason behind having to submit the 'written reasons' when you @praise was so that use and abuse could be monitored and tracked, to 'enforce' potential as a reward for RP and not just for being best pals with someone. Quick perusal of *praise shows this to be incorrect, as scores of people are praising others with cute quips or jokes, or for obvious OOC reasons. Again and again. Though I admittedly have no idea of the coding that would be involved, I would suggest a system that prevents you from @praising alts, and your last six or seven @praises. That way, you could still vote for your same old crew if you so chose, but essentially only once a week (1 praise for one of your 7 buddies each day; repeat after a week.) I imagine this could be stored in some sort of list property somewhere and wouldn't (hopefully) be too cumbersome. A cap on pot gained from RP wouldn't be such a bad idea either, though I agree with Oberon (?) that we have to be careful not to discourage IC interaction. It's sad that people macroed and triggered 'RP-sparring' like that...I wasn't aware. Sad, sad. Anyway, just my thoughts. -------------------------- Message 2035 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 20:22:00 2003 CDT From: Shandryl (#24740) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: triggers on rp-sparring? Umm, someone is triggering RP sparring? I dont think that even works. What about when you need to eat crystals? or change weapons? or wakeup someone or heal them? What I know about the triggers is like picking up crystals, or slisssh droppings or rocks as you walk through a room. As far as pot triggers, those end I would suppose after someone reaches average in a skill. WHy else would ya want them? Again, triggers can ALSO get ya killed and looted easy enough. So why would anyone make it a habit? Makes no sense for the little you stand to gain. MY 3cents. -------------------------- Message 2036 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 20:26:21 2003 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: RP-sparring Perhaps 'RP-sparring' was a bad way of wording it. I was referring to people triggering pose commands, i.e. '.laughs and takes another sip of his/her/its drink.' wait 1 minute '.smile and .nod.' wait 2 minutes, etc. etc. So that they don't have to be at their computer, yet as far as potential accumulation is concerned, they are active and RPing. -------------------------- Message 2037 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 20:50:47 2003 CDT From: Styx (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @praise I know on BrokenFang that we have a method in for allowing people to vote praise for others. What it amounted to is you get a 'set' amount of people you can paise saved in a property. If you tried to praise someone in your list it told you to try someone else. As you voted for a new person, that person got added and the last name in the list got bumped out. Since BF had less people then this place we of course had people who could not vote for anyone for awhile. But it did work to limit the amount of praising going on. -------------------------- Message 2038 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 17 21:17:56 2003 CDT From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: Shandryl I have a mail sitting in my inbox, here.. from you, I might add, which involved your triggers spamming the shit out of me in between requests for gear. Looks like a combination of lockpick sparring and a @spoof RP trigger to keep your idle time low and maximize potential gain. why don't you tell us why people do it? -_- Nny, angry -------------------------- Message 2039 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Oct 18 17:56:17 2003 CDT From: Camber (#22034) To: *ideas (#504) Yo, I'll fucking spar for pot. How much do I get, something like an eighth an hour? Is it total schwag or decent bud? :D --------------------------