From quinn@fazigu.org Thu Oct 24 12:15:50 2002 Return-path: Envelope-to: quinn@localhost Received: from requiem ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost ident=quinn) by requiem with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 184keE-0003jf-00 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:15:50 -0400 Delivered-To: quinn@netsville.com Received: from requiem [127.0.0.1] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.1.0) for quinn@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx28.postini.com [64.75.1.183]) by corpmail.netsville.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1959F4BD4A for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from source ([66.100.236.130]) by exprod5mx28.postini.com ([64.75.1.245]) with SMTP; Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:14:09 EDT Received: (qmail 398 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2002 16:14:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO moo.ghostmoo.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 24 Oct 2002 16:14:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:14:09 -0400 From: "Quinn@Ghostwheel" To: quinn@netsville.com Subject: Ghostwheel Message(s) 1892 - 1962 from *ideas (#504) X-Mail-Agent: Ghostwheel (moo.ghostmoo.org 6969) Message-Id: <20021024161410.1959F4BD4A@corpmail.netsville.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 41201 Lines: 1181 Message 1892 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 26 14:16:17 2002 CDT From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: How hard would it be to integrate ansi into combat messages? And who thinks it'd be a good idea/bad idea? -------------------------- Message 1893 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 26 19:25:07 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: radsuit Make em revealable so we can take off the masks in the haven :) -------------------------- Message 1894 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 26 19:25:59 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: err Nevermind, my bad. -------------------------- Message 1895 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 26 20:18:49 2002 CDT From: Shaelin (#18284) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ansi It might be simpler to just download a game client that lets you see in color. Mushclient for one, lets you set colors for anything you want. I think Zmud might also but its been a while since Ive used that. -------------------------- Message 1896 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 26 22:47:32 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *SoulMechs (#9541) and *ideas (#504) Subject: I want! The ability to combine my mech with 4 other pilots mechs to form Megazord. -------------------------- Message 1897 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 27 13:55:40 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Some sort of animal training skill. Train them to do tricks and be mounts, etc. -------------------------- Message 1898 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 27 17:49:36 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Guns How do all of you feel about the idea of Replicator guns and ammo, this isn't saying it's going to happen I'm just wondering what the moo thinks. H -------------------------- Message 1899 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 27 17:51:42 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I'm vocal today! I'm all for more MOO guns, if the guns are toned down a bit. NOt so much that you need 1000 shooting to hit someone, but enough that a gun still beats most people. I mean, it is a gun afterall. Technology advances for a reason. Vert -------------------------- Message 1900 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 27 19:28:55 2002 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: MOO guns I'm for it as well, since it's particularly themely :) I think if they're commonly replicatable, though, they obviously shouldn't be of equal power to the current shotguns. You should probably have to feed the replicator some crystals (like certain replicators all ready in the game) for it, too. Theme-wise, I guess they should probably look cobbled-together and somewhat worn...maybe that would account for their lesser quality. An old service revolver...a battered hunting rifle. Currently-existing firearms should be rare due to their relatively pristeen condition and quality. Oh - one obvious suggestion. If they're replicatable, either make it so they can't be renamed or redescribed (to things like 'rapier', '1 crystal', and other twinkiness). As it stands, if more firearms don't make their way into the IC world, I think people would be okay with maybe an ammunition replicator of some sort since right now ammo's relatively hard to come by. Just my two cents. -------------------------- Message 1901 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 00:41:49 2002 CDT From: Oberon (#22725) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Replicators I would never want to a see a gun replicator. The whole reason so many characters use swords and axes and what not are because guns are so rare. I have no problem with making guns less rare(ie, GM made and thrown into the game), and different kinds, but a replicator, I think, pushes it too far. Having everyone with their "snub-nosed revolver" or whatever the replicator would make would diminish the unique flare of guns. Personally, I'd rather see GM's just put out the guns. Maybe more pistols, a rifle or two. Unique guns add much more style to the MOO in general. My 10,000 pesos. -Oberon -------------------------- Message 1902 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 00:42:51 2002 CDT From: Oberon (#22725) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Addition As a side note, ammunition replicators would be muy bien. -------------------------- Message 1903 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 00:45:02 2002 CDT From: Dunham (#37059) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Guns and ammo I'm with Oby on that one. To make guns extremely common would take away the coolness of having one. But ammunition reps... well. It's kind of pointless to have a shotgun if you're only capable of hitting people with the butt of it. -------------------------- Message 1904 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 00:45:59 2002 CDT From: Darkpaw (#24594) To: *ideas (#504) Speaking of butts, make a body area for it. I want to be able to describe my sexy buns. -------------------------- Message 1905 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 00:46:14 2002 CDT From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: guns and ammo I like the idea of keeping ammo rare, personally. Make the bullets count. -_- -------------------------- Message 1906 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 10:04:38 2002 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) No gun and ammo replicators. No. -------------------------- Message 1907 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 10:05:33 2002 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) The good news is that I have already built an area which contains an ammo mill. I'm not sure anyone ever found it, and the ammo only works in one type of gun, also in that area. -------------------------- Message 1908 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 18:38:31 2002 CDT From: Dunvil (#22695) To: *ideas (#504) A hidden .plan. One where detailed character background can be placed that can be viewed by the GM's as well as the player, but kept safe from prying eyes. -------------------------- Message 1909 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 28 19:25:59 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Seperate boost messages for the various armed weapon skills. -------------------------- Message 1910 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 29 22:03:35 2002 CDT From: Dexter (#14882) To: *ideas (#504) T QUINN I FOUND THE AMMO MILL (ALSO DICKS) BUT I CAN'T GET IT TO WORK -------------------------- Message 1911 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 29 22:06:11 2002 CDT From: Devon (#23970) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Dunvil's plan suggestion. Put it on a note, you can make notes and edit their text. Thats where Dante's full history is. -------------------------- Message 1912 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 29 22:07:01 2002 CDT From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: Devon Actually, I fully approve of a hidden-bg property that's viewable in +finger only to staff. Hunting down people's notes is annoying. -------------------------- Message 1913 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 1 14:32:37 2002 CDT From: Dunham (#37059) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Tents we can lock down... If it's alright to redescribe a tent as a 'mech hangar, it should stand to reason that said 'mech hangar, being a large, concrete-and-steel edifice big eough for a 'mech (or several) to walk in, should not be able to be taken. -------------------------- Message 1914 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 1 22:24:04 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Mech to mech communications -------------------------- Message 1915 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 1 22:33:57 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: RP potential Have it check for mech pilots rping together. -------------------------- Message 1916 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 2 12:40:46 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ooc movement in the dark corridors you can still move around ooc down there something really should be done about that. H -------------------------- Message 1917 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 2 14:55:51 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Lockpicks -------------------------- Message 1918 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 3 19:38:40 2002 CDT From: Kijindei (#25075) To: *ideas (#504) Sites in the wasteland that bare some importance should show up as more then a usual dot in the wasteland. Please make them X's or something. -------------------------- Message 1919 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 3 20:46:59 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I should be able to wear other stuff over body armor :P -------------------------- Message 1920 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 3 21:19:43 2002 CDT From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Roberts post to *ideas Sexually transmitted diseases have been a topic of discussion in the past. Hell, it is a disease..So the idea was condoms. If you could find them. Black market. hehe. Quinn, you ever get the time to do that?! -------------------------- Message 1921 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 3 21:24:14 2002 CDT From: DragonBabe (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: $collectives aka ammo I was talking to Fort and Mulder about this a few weeks ago. About putting arrows in one. Not sure the $collectives could. And worry about stockpiling. Some form of cap would have to be coded in so that Xplayer didnt go crazy and buy 200,000 rounds of slug/shot. -------------------------- Message 1922 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Sep 5 20:39:30 2002 CDT From: Tikiaido (#24781) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Guns and ammo I don't know about you people, but I loved Arcanum. And thought it could've done much better. I'm thinking of firstly, a use for the tinker skill, and secondly, several subskills for it, like melee has armed, unarmed, brawl, bladed, blunt, trident, etc. First subskill would be weaponsmith. It would break into blades, bludgeons, spears, maybe others. The higher you are in tinker, weaponsmith, blades, bludgeons, etcettera, the better bladed, bludgeoning, spear, etc. weapons you can make. However, you need to stuff some crystals in a replicator to get parts to try. Like maybe a sword hilt, and some ore. And you need to do it at a forge. Different forges would be capable of different things. Maybe the parts and forge for a broadsword are free, somewhere on Jizo... (so starting up your skill doesn't cost you billions of crystals), but the forge at Jizo can't forge anything better than a bs. Then at N'Orleans, (or whatever the next toughness level is), there's a forge for a longknife. Then some kind of short sword/stiletto at the GW, then a cutlass or kat in the Steel Bowels, and maybe something like a longsword, or 'the best sword' in some really hard to reach/secret location like hidden in Dixie. Of course the locations of the nongeneric forges would be secret. Forging is hot, time-consuming work. It requires several SUCCESSFUL attempts over the course of minutes (maybe an interval like healing) to make an item. Maybe we could have weapons grades. Worthless. Ramshackle. Crude. Regular. Superior. Exceptional. Elite. With grades lower than regular getting combat PENALTIES due to being badly forged/sharpened, having chance to break, and causing more fatigue, and better-forged weapons of the same type causing less fatigue. Same thing with blunts, spears, etcettera. Then we get into yer guns. Something like Arcanum's Flintlock Pistol (maybe a zipgun?), would be free at Jizo to a novice Gunsmith. Pistols, rifles, SMG's and automatic rifles would be all different kinds of guns you could make. A beginning pistol is all you get at jizo. Crude flintlock (zipgun may be more theme-appropriate). Does sickeningly low damage, has a fairly good chance of blowing up on you (unless it's Exceptional or Elite forged...), etcettera. Then, at the next hidden gun shop, you've got parts and aparatus for the making of gun and ammo (which costs crystals, of course) for a better pistol. Maybe a service .32 revolver. Damage still ain't that great, but you can load six bullets instead of one, and it blows up MUCH less frequently, unless it was very badly made. You also get the beginning SMG. Maybe a crude machine pistol. One of those foreign models that you've got to make sure all the screws are tight before firing. ;) The first-grade rifle wouldn't be till the third-grade gun shop, and the beginner automatic rifle wouldn't be untill the fourth-grade gun shop. Everything but the beginning pistol costs crystals for parts. With any forging or weaponsmithing, you've a chance of completely fucking it up (two consecutive horrible failures, or several consecutive near-misses). Also, if you fail a roll, it negates one of your successes. So failing makes it take longer. If you screw it up horribly, obviously, you've broken the parts, and must buy new ones. If you just miss several times, you can't draw your concentration for the finer workings of it, but manage to salvage some or all of your parts. It would take a lot of coding, but it would have IC weaponsmiths and gunsmiths that people would have to actually DEAL with, rather than 'beep-beep-beep REPLICATION SUCCESSFUL *DING!*'. It'd certainly be fun. If everyone didn't get crazy and go to learn gunsmithing. Maybe you should have a special FO that you can't make weapons unless you have an exclusive class Weaponsmith, and you can't make guns unless you have an exclusive class Gunsmith. Anyway. That's my latest, greatest (probably lame) idea on the matter. -------------------------- Message 1923 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Sep 5 22:22:10 2002 CDT From: Tikiaido (#24781) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Permanent Insanity I'd like to see Insanity that 'sticks' for a time and can't be gotten rid of by crystals either. Maybe only in REALLY extreme cases, and maybe only for short times... but I'd like to see it possible for a person to be codedly driven debilitatingly insane. It might be fun instead of just having to 'pretend' like people who're playing crazy characters read in the high 300's or better in Insanity when you scan them. ;) -------------------------- Message 1924 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 16:13:55 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mechs Make them hackable, or some other way to mess with them when they aren't being piloted. -------------------------- Message 1925 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 16:14:31 2002 CDT From: Khyber (#12460) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: erm doesn't a soulmech require the pilots soul? -------------------------- Message 1926 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 16:16:38 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mechs didn't say let people take them over, but if the thing is just standing there you ought to be able to fuck it up if you know what your doing, or get lucky. H -------------------------- Message 1927 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 17:10:41 2002 CDT From: Tikiaido (#24781) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Hacking... Well, it would make it so it'd be much more prudent to be smart and leave it in a locked hangar or leave it with its natural defense systems on. See, a 'mech that's actually on, will kill the hell out of things if it's attacked. Rgardless if the pilot's in it. -------------------------- Message 1928 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 17:12:42 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I seem to recall that the mechs here don't do a thing with out a pilot, but maybe my memory is faulty. H -------------------------- Message 1929 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 17:17:54 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) stun tg Action "stun The Ghost" (1) queued. You attempt to skewer The Ghost, upon your trident. The clang of metal rings like nails on a chalkboard as Its armor absorbs the damage. The Ghost raises up its flamethrower, bringing it down quickly upon you. The flamethrower crashes home, inflicting severe damage upon your chest. up Action "flee up" (1) queued. The Ghost brings the flamethrower around at a wide arc towards you. The flamethrower crashes home, inflicting severe damage upon your chest. -------------------------- Message 1930 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 6 17:27:51 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: hmmm Maybe mechs should be fixed so they don't attack with out a pilot . H -------------------------- Message 1931 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Sep 7 14:15:41 2002 CDT From: Tikiaido (#24781) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mechs >From what Ake's told me, 'mechs are semisentient, drawing on the sentience of their pilot even when he's not inside. Maybe we should leave the workings of the 'mechs to the 'mech GM. -------------------------- Message 1932 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 9 16:00:54 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: time limits take all time limits off boosting anything under average. H -------------------------- Message 1933 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 9 17:21:06 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: H's last Why not get rid of all the time delay, average or max. Make the stat system like it was several odd years ago :) -------------------------- Message 1934 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 9 21:00:04 2002 CDT From: Dante (#10660) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I do think you should... remove under average times, or at the very least, under minimum times. Upto 100 it should go full speed without even the second waiting. -------------------------- Message 1935 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 9 21:53:34 2002 CDT From: Coreen (#18717) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Attributes A table that could be posted (or that I could be directed to) that shows the relation between your attribute score and how visible it is. I.e. how muscular someone with 50 strength is compared with 75...and 100, etc...how dextrous dexterity 75 makes you, and the like. I realize it's up to use to determine our characters' appearances, by and large, though I think it would be hard to pass off someone with 100 strength as 'willowy'...just wanted a guideline. Thanks. -------------------------- Message 1936 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 9 21:59:32 2002 CDT From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: Coreen Idea #1: Syringes so we can powder up crystals and inject them into different parts of our bodies for different effects. Base of the spine for dexterity. Muscles for strength. Through the eye for willpower. etc -------------------------- Message 1937 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 08:59:17 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Heretic's idea I love Heretics idea, in that I -hate- sparring. However, I think it's just a quick fix to an overwhelming problem with the way the stat system is in general. We're getting a pinball effect. More and more points. So many points that it's being suggested that the first 100 are simply in constant boosting mode. In a few years, maybe it would be the 1st 500, and then the 1st 1000. No one is specialized, myself included. If you plan to get any sort of high combat skill on the MOO you're at a disadvantage if you neglect -any- of the other skills because they're all tied together. No one is a blademaster without also being a master of all blunt weapons, spears, whips and a pugilist champion. Unless of course they stopped sparring before the newer skills (like spear) came out. In Coreen's post she mentioned it would be nice to see how certain people look base on their atts or such. I can help you out in that regard. Anyone who's spent some time or energy on their character is a 6 foot 200 pound walking muscle with lightning reflexes, as healthy as a champion horse, nimble as the most talented thief and as confident and in control as Shaolin Monks. So, to sum up my opinion once again on the matter. Retroactive skill caps. A limited number of skills one can reasonably aquire. And something other than the repetetive work-like environment of a sparring system. Perhaps daily points, or pure @praise, or a combination of both. Let's breed characters and not walking tanks how never have to work together to accomplish something. Vert -------------------------- Message 1938 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 10:47:58 2002 CDT From: Heretic (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: can't do it with ... just @praise, if you go that way you ignore a large class of people who like to hunt and explore but really don't want to have much contact with others. H -------------------------- Message 1939 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 12:31:48 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I agree And that's why I think a combination of @praise and a daily points system would do well. Those that chose to purely RP, could do so, gaining the daily allotment and the @praise points. Those who chose never to interact with others would gain the daily points and crystals from hunting. Both play types would have their advantages code-wise. Vert -------------------------- Message 1940 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 14:41:55 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) But I _want_ to be a 6 foot 200 pound walking muscle hulk with lightning reflexes, as healthy as a champion horse, nimble as the most talented thief and as confident and in control as Shaolin Monks. I think if you want to RP, go ahead, its fun. But people like me, which love being one of the most powerful people on the MOO, want to be able to boost freely without the time delay. I know the game isn't realistic, but if you train for hours a day, each day, you should get better then everyone else quickly. -------------------------- Message 1941 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 14:43:20 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Oh yeah It'd be cool if your attributes boosted with your skills. Like Blunt = Str, etc. -------------------------- Message 1942 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 14:53:56 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) You may -want- to be the biggest baddest dude on the block, but if -everyone- is the that high the whole effect is lost. Now you have a game where everyone is their own superhero. And you're right, if you train for hours a day, you would get better than everyone else, and quickly. But no one on the planet has the ability to train in 10 different areas all to titan-like levels. There just aren't that many hours in the day. Wouldn't you rather be the best at 'such and such' skill and have it mean something? Vert -------------------------- Message 1943 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 15:55:40 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Everyone wouldn't be like that, only the spar monkies, and they would be in competition to see whos the best of the best of the best. :) -------------------------- Message 1944 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 16:35:41 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: However.. Your theory doesn't hold, because that's how we are right now, and everyone* is like that. And not just the people who want to spar, but people who are forced to spar if they want to keep up in a game which rewards repetetive, boring, work. Vert *everyone - A majority of the active playerbase. I know there are exceptions. -------------------------- Message 1945 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 18:19:45 2002 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Vertemis' few I'm all for progress and whatnot, but I think what Vertemis has been suggesting is regressive, not progressive. First of all, I'll admit that I don't see anything wrong with the stat/skill system. Keeping that bias in mind, if I was to decide that something was wrong, I wouldn't want to undertake a massive stat/skill levelling or seemingly arbitrary application of point caps. Why? Many people on here have been playing for years and they've spent lots of time into building their characters, both in the IC sense and the stat sense. To all of a sudden impose numerical limits on skills trods all over their hard work. If people think the playerbase was mad when that plague/disease of Fortitude's rolled out, wait and see what happens if they put in stat caps. Another point I think you should perhaps take into account is how the stat system actually works. Now, I'm not a wiz, so my information could be faulty, but as I understand it when you invoke the combat engine, it runs off of your relevant skill's + value. You receive a certain portion of that + value all the time (a 'hard' bonus) depending on how skilled you are - 250 gets you a certain guaranteed percentage, 500 gets you some more, etc. I think it works out to you getting at the very least 50% of your skill value, but the rest is entirely RANDOM. So, however unlikely it may seem, a player with about 500 bladed can still hit a person with 1000 bladed. Therefore, I don't see what the problem is with the current stat system. As far as I can tell, the only problem you've mentioned with the system is that a lot of people are a lot higher than you because you prefer to RP instead of hunt. From a realism perspective, I think we should be lucky that we can get potential points for RP (as it wasn't always this way) since it makes more sense that you become a more proficient blademaster by fighting with cainids than sitting in the R/T lounge sipping drinks with your friends. Lastly, I don't see the legions of people hanging around the R/T knocking out and looting players like we had in the past with Karcass, Uno and the like. A lot of the older players with higher stats are rarely IC anymore (when was the last time Kzin, Rathe, Khyber and Williker have been in the Lounge...together?) So what bearing does people's stats have on anything right now?? (confused) -------------------------- Message 1946 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 18:36:39 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Number 1: Progressive vs Regressive I guess this is a matter of opinion. I see moving towards a more RP related environement and away from a totally coded environment as progress. Whether or not people initially like a stat cap or leveling is irrelevant in my opinion. If the game is too progress it's neccessary. In the long run, the game does not benefit from having unlimited skill level potential. Yes, it rewards older players, but a game cannot survive on older players alone. From the 5 people I've introduced to the game, 1 stayed, and the rest left because the thought of having to spend literally -years- of a persons life to attain the level of some of the characters here is way too much time to devote to a game. Number 2: The stat system The stat system has many faults, and although a 500 point person may hit a 1000 point person, that's still 500 points! There are people who actively play with well over 1000. Those numbers take months of dedicated time on the MOO. Years if you play casually. If GW is ment to be a club for those who stick with it for years, rewarding those who spend countless hours connected, then there's nothing wrong with those sorts of numbers. It'll be great when people start reaching 5000! Number 3: Realism vs Perspective Potential for RPing is a reward for playing the game, and Rping. Not an explanation for where you get the skills. At a three to one time ratio, there's plenty of 'off screen' time characters spend training, sleeping, eating, using the restroom, whatnot. The tedium of forcing the player to watch each swing of the sword that the character goes through in life while advancing as a character is silly. This could just as easily be represented through daily alotments of potential/skill points, free players up to play the game, and not have to work it. Number 4: Bearing of stats Contrary to popular belief, stats aren't just for dealing with twinks. Stats are (or should be) a way to define your character. Secondly, Rathe, Kzin, Williker, etc are old school stat monkeys. If you take a peek around the R/T, nearly every player now-a-days has at least 500 in a couple skills, if not 1000. And most of the time it goes against their character concept, but the system rewards stat hording, and as such, even the weakest mages are forced to get godly combat skills in order to get crystals, to boost their willpower, to give them higher focus, to make them better mages. Vert -------------------------- Message 1947 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:04:34 2002 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) 1) Moving towards an RP-related environment. Quoting from the last line of the first paragraph of 'game consent': 'This is a game with a very, very violent edge.' Combat has been coded for a reason. Combat is also RP, whether it comes as lengthy non-coded poses between combatants or through the combat engine. I would also like to think that players' opinions have merit given that they *are* the whole game, so I find your comment about their 'liking a stat cap or leveling is irrelevant' to be rather disturbing. You say your friends left because they didn't want to spend years to reach top ten stat levels - if you level or cap stats, then you'll chase away the players who *have* spent years reaching the top ten. These scenarios are two sides of the same coin; the game might not be run on oldbies alone, but I doubt it'd last very long if they all up and left. There also seems to be this great issue of 'time' to raise one's stats. Should the title of Blademaster of Ghostwheel be attainable in...three months? No, it *should* take years. It doesn't take long at all to make average stats, especially with no more time delay. The number of people with 1000+ stats is rather limited, and so I don't see why you view this as a goal for newbies to attain quickly - you can't be the best at anything instantly. Average stats are more than adequate for hunting the wheel safely. 2) Value of points 500 points in a stat isn't all that much. Your + value rises on some form of S-curve, namely it rises very sharply in the beginning when you have lower stats, than when you have higher stats. To get a single +1 increase at above 1000 sometimes requires getting ten or more points in the skill. Also, you can get lots of potential points by RPing in groups, 15-25 for about three hours depending on how many people. That's a lot better timewise than hunting if you're above average. I don't know where you're getting this impression that GW is some sort of clique club for the spar and huntmasters. If there are people hanging around in public places KOing and looting and disrupting RP with their superskilled selves then tell us. Post ICly. Assemble a gang.... Why is it a problem that some people have worked hard and been here longer are rewarded with better stats? No one said this game would be equal. Just like RL, there are always people who will have more and be better at some things than the rest of us. .to be continued next post. (apologies for length) -------------------------- Message 1948 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:13:21 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I want to respond at length, but I have to head off for awhile So I'll keep it to the point. Or try to, anyway.. 1#: DOn't take me for a non-combat kind of guy. I -love combat, I simply want a system in which A: The levels are more attainable, and B: PLayers can't have top levels in every skill. You know like how nearly -every- other rpg on the planet operates. 2# The idea of not wanting to lose 'hard earned points' even if it's detrimental to the game is selfish. Also, the idea that 'The game is this way so deal' is Facist at best. Even totally static online games, like Warcraft and Starcraft listen to players ideas and change things that aren't working right. 3#: The benefit for being on the game long should be connections, power and larger holdings. NOt more and more stats. This goes back to the pinball effect. Yay! I've got 600000 bladed! I can fight a cainid! And finally, because I guess this wasn't clear the first time I posted it. My concern has -nothing- to do with twinks KOing people in the R/T. Stats aren't just for dealing with powerful problem players. They should be to define a character. Vert -------------------------- Message 1949 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:15:37 2002 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: $ continued 3) Realism Combat and hunting are part of the game. They are still RP as you must be In-Character to do so. Combat and hunting are not 'off-screen' parts of the game...becoming an accomplished swordsperson is a very real IC goal and as such should take IC action and work to get there. Yes, some things such as going to the bathroom, sleeping and whatnot are done off-screen, but combat and hunting is not the same. If you find it tedious or time-consuming to spar or hunt, then don't. There is no law saying you have to. Ylaerin is a perfect example - I doubt she's ever hunted or sparred, and she is still a very powerful entity in the IC world. Especially now that you can get potential points by being in a room with people, you needn't go to the Wheel to hunt in order to raise your stats. Hunting does not keep people from playing the game; in fact, there are a lot of people I've seen on here who *only* frequent the Wheel. To hunt. 4) On stats Again, I do not understand why you view people as being 'forced' to acquire stats. To my knowledge, there is no one patrolling the IC world knocking people out, bullying them, looting them or in any other way disrupting RP by use of the combat system that could be construed as 'forcing' a player to get stats in order to RP. So a lot of people have 500 in their stats these days. Your point? Unless you are trying to RP a character that goes around knocking people out, bullying them and kicking their tail, then this shouldn't be a problem. If you *are* RPing a combat-oriented character, then you must also realize you must RP your character's progression and training. And that requires use of the coded combat system, whether against cainids or with a spar buddy. Or, alternatively, the use of potential points. Nothing here is free; it must be worked for in one form or another. -------------------------- Message 1950 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:22:14 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) If you played a D&D game where you're having a great time with the plot, nice twists, settings, etc, and then the Gamemaster said, "Ok, now, tell me about how your characters are training now. Describe that to me. We'll be doing this every session for the first 15 minutes. Then, we'll go kill some random monster, then we'll get back to the plot, even though your plot has nothing to do with this, and your character might not even be the type of character to do this." How long would you play with that GM? -------------------------- Message 1951 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:23:29 2002 CDT From: Tikiaido (#24781) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: GIVE IT A FUCKING REST! PLEASE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. All you two are doing is ARGUING with eachother. This is the *ideas list, not *chat. -------------------------- Message 1952 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 19:32:18 2002 CDT From: Yalindra (#13170) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: D&D example D&D has a system for gaining experience. You kill a beastie, disarm a trap, whatever, you get XP. Get enough and you advance to the next level, and all your combat and non-combat skills can get raised. In GW, the system is a bit different but the idea is the same...kill a beastie (or attempt to kill a beastie), get a random chance of gaining experience in that skill. GW's system only seems tedious because there aren't always plots going on during which you might be able to boost.... And Tiki - I'm sorry that you view my discussion as an argument and that it's annoying you. However, I think perhaps you could have pointed this out without the use of capital letters and expletives. I'll leave it at one point: stats are not required for RP. -------------------------- Message 1953 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 10 23:00:19 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: The Perfect Idea! A bong in the R/T lounge. -------------------------- Message 1954 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 11 02:44:48 2002 CDT From: Nny (#25135) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: ideas Here's an idea Tamp down on the stat system, crank everything down, replace the wait times system with something that makes certain skills polar opposites (i.e., it becomes more difficult to advance focus and tinker when you have high bladed), and cut all existing PC's stats /10. Yep. -------------------------- Message 1955 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 11 16:14:44 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) That's a -great- solution, and easy to implement since it's not really a new system, just a modification of the original. Vert -------------------------- Message 1956 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 11 16:17:33 2002 CDT From: Vertemis (#23360) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: $-1 Although it doesn't eliminate sparring, which is the ultimate evil. But I don't realistically see that going anywhere any time soon. Vert -------------------------- Message 1957 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 11 22:30:07 2002 CDT From: Rand (#9865) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ... You can't eliminate sparring, if you did that would ruin the fun for other people who log in here only to spar... No, that was not a jibe at anyone. Just pointing out that if you remove sparring we are going to have this same conversation over again, except its the Spar types that will be doing the complaining... Okey, did that make any sense? -------------------------- Message 1958 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 17 19:00:12 2002 CDT From: Mikishi (#24590) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: here's an idea make me produce VOMITUS BLOCKS. damnit. -------------------------- Message 1959 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 17 22:07:28 2002 CDT From: Ceri (#24980) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: a new form of rp?? and TP? It was brought up in the R/T to have some sort of Gladiator Games. We could have an arena. Post some of the favorites to fight each other. Collect bets from the audience, where the house and the winners got a piece of the action... maybe in crystals, weaponms, armour??? HAve people @praise the outcome????? so pot points get involved???? This would be a great way to show new themes of play... and perhaps utilize those that have become GODS at skills. Also, find a way to let those that use noncoded combat to benefit???? I think it would be fun. -------------------------- Message 1960 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 18 16:01:32 2002 CDT From: Menroth (#14123) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Arena I think that would be cool, we could have all sorts of classes and shit, I think we should go ahead and sign up. But we need to make a date when it would be easiest for all to come. -------------------------- Message 1961 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 18 21:02:51 2002 CDT From: Dexter (#14882) To: *ideas (#504) Have characters who are female mysteriously become codedly pregnant like a disease and like Village of the Damned. Some die when their offspring are born, some live and all that kind of stuff. Exploding uteruses and new monsters for all. -------------------------- Message 1962 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Sep 18 21:26:43 2002 CDT From: Clayson (#17237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mad Max I have a question, what ever happened to the Mad Max thing that was tossed around? Can we get that going, I really think that would be a kick in the ass. I'm sure you can use the existing code that is laying around for the dragons, or the SoulMechs to create vehicles. And, what about the code for the Durandal types, you can use that to replace limbs, you know, replace arms for attached chainsaws and hooks, instead of claws and teeth. P. --------------------------