Message-Id: <199805141346.IAA11429@zoom.bga.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:46:12 -0400
From: "Quinn@GhostWheel" <someone@ghostwheel.mud.org>
To: quinn@netsville.com
Subject: GhostWheel Message(s) 800 - 830 from *ideas (#504)
Status: U

Message 800 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Tue Apr  7 20:28:38 1998 CDT
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  idea

For the past couple of Xmas's there has been Xmas light strung up in the
lounge. So I'm assuming that there is electricity on this world. Why isn't
there any neon lights, blinking and hanging askew displaying Bar and Grill,
Mo's Massage Parlor, things like that. And if indeed there is electricity,
where are the computers? If there are computers, where is the internet? If
there is an internet, why cant we jack into it and take over Dakirion and then
the world?

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Message 801 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Tue Apr  7 20:29:46 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)

There are computers. Go have a look underground.
The internet is being coded by Mulder, last I heard.
I imagine we'll be able to take over dak once Mulder finishes his code ;)

As for Neon, its tacky! ;)

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Message 802 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Wed Apr  8 16:16:57 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  re 203 on *db-issues

with the new v_size props, is there any way we can get sized containers? I
mean, obviously backpacks are larger than a flashlight.. And some pouches
would be smaller.

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Message 803 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Wed Apr  8 17:33:25 1998 CDT
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  re: 203 on *db-issues


Oh yeah, and how about a chest sitting in yer room?? It can hold a sword, tons
of clothing!..

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Message 804 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Wed Apr  8 18:35:56 1998 CDT
From:     Coreen (#18717)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Re: Rathe's last on *bugs and container sizes

Clothing might not really need it, though depending on the
type of wearable container, it can/likely will be abused. Some
articles of clothing, such as long coats and cloaks (simply
think of Highlander, cop dramas, etc.) are able to hide
larger items like swords, shotguns and the like. I realize
that unless an @size verb that allows GMs or players to set
the vsize of their objects and containers, someone might make
a wearable container called Change Purse that could store
everything from swords to small animals. *shrug* Other than
having GMs have to set the capacity of containers on creation
or creating some code to set size according to the name of the
container (neither of which, I can guess, sound very appealing/
feasible), there is no way to get around possible abuse. Do
we really even need vsize, except to keep dragons and mechs from
running amuck in the R/T? :)

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Message 805 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sat Apr 11 19:59:26 1998 CDT
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Replicator in the R/T

"Get the replicator out of the R/T? It really disrupts RP by spamming your
screen is someone is gathering their entire wardrobe.

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Message 806 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:14:13 1998 CDT
From:     Toraxyn (#19315)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  I'm gonna get flamed for this, but...

 Force all high-statted characters to take some sort of rules similar to the
Adversary status, or make them face stat caps.  I'd also like to see a few
more coded advantages for new people, maybe higher potential granted or more
GM assistance.

I've seen it for a long time but not said anything.   I honestly don't think
this MOO is fun for newer or low-statted characters any-more.  Personally, I'd
like less emphasis put on this becoming a MOO of the elite and more being a
MOO of the vast majority of players.

--------------------------


Message 807 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:16:18 1998 CDT
From:     Moonheart (#20495)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  only problem with tor's idea is

that it punishes those that spend the time to get the stats...and rewards
those that don't....I'm almost in favor of a total reset and let every one
work there way up to what ever they can....

H

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Message 808 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:17:45 1998 CDT
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  My 2 cents.

Being one of those newbies, I have to agree with Toraxyn. While it's not
impossible to RP and have fun, the knowledge that there is absolutely no way
you can survive one of stat-gods, without about 1 year of sparring, can damper
things. I think it would be less of a problem if most of the stat-gods weren't
loony/evil. But trying to play a character who helps others in trouble is nigh
impossible. Then again, they did earn the stats through hard sparring, so who
knows what the solution is.

--------------------------


Message 809 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:19:09 1998 CDT
From:     Perplexity (#20542)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  *sniffle*

But... I'm close to 1k bladed on an alt, am looney, evil, and still never hurt
anybody. *cry*

This post brought to you by Space Wasters Anonymous.

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Message 810 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:19:10 1998 CDT
From:     Toraxyn (#19315)
To:       *ideas (#504)

I have personally worked for every stat I have, and I don't see anything wrong
with accepting rules because of that.  I don't believe that people should be
allowed to go around and attack others without IC reason.  You should not need
stats to play on this MOO.  Those who get them can compete, sure.  But they
shouldn't be making life more difficult than normal for those who choose to
play as regular joes as opposed to combat deities.

--------------------------


Message 811 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:22:12 1998 CDT
From:     Moonheart (#20495)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  it's a stat based moo 

with a stat based combat system you'd have to jerk that out at the roots to
make it "fair" ...and it'd no longer be Ghostwheel.

H

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Message 812 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:24:15 1998 CDT
From:     Julian (#17640)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Stat based MOO?

I have to disagree. The stats do not make the MOO. Stats are a tool, that can
be replaced without changing the whole completely. The theme and the people of
this MOO make it what it is.

--------------------------


Message 813 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:24:39 1998 CDT
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  So you know....

It's completely impossible to catch up with this system. The only way to win a
fight with Rathe, Tor or Kzin will ever be a gun and even then it may not
work. Not to pick on them but they did earn these stats, still there will be
guys like me, Clayson and Skeeter it's like 4 levels of stats. 1st level is
average, your ordinary player. Second level is 500 or so moderate level of
sparring, not a big asskicker but still good. 1000 for those who worked at it
for half a year. And lastly the guys who worked even longer to get 1500. Even
if I was to spar everyday twice thats at best 5 points, 5 points 5 times a
week is 25 points. When Tor sees I'm sparring or Kzin they'll spar too. So in
essence it's worthless to even try which is actually why I don't spar anymore
;)

On a counter note resets are idiotic, the current system just doesn't work.
Now if you were to rework the stat system. One which didn't have a max int
stat of 9999 bladed ;P then it wouldn't be so bad. I don't know what to
suggest but every other MOO with a rpg I've been to, CS and Lambda both have
limits to stats I like working to get upto a point and beating my enemies when
a fight becomes one of luck where either person can win I know I am definitely
more thrilled then if it's an uneven fight. It's more fun ;) Point being I'd
like to see fights more even in the total circumstances, one based more on
luck of the situation, the first hit and how many friends you have to team up
and kickass Not one where a single guy can take out 10 people in an entire
room.

--------------------------


Message 814 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:29:46 1998 CDT
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Resetting

Well, stats aside, one problem with a reset is the older players losing all
their advantage points.

--------------------------


Message 815 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:31:39 1998 CDT
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  say Stats and stuff

I have to agree with Ed's post, resetting will not work. We tried that
remember? People got pissed, everyone spared day and night to try to get there
stats back. A cap is needed. Even for my char's, I love to spar...but for
Christ sakes, there is no reason for Clayson to have a high bladed, Smoke
either...A woman running around killing grown men in one hit is insane.

And now with summer coming the sparring will start again, soon other players
will by pass Rathe, Kzin and Tor...it will never stop. If a cap is in place at
least the sparring will go away and more ppl will come out to play.

--------------------------


Message 816 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:33:42 1998 CDT
From:     Toraxyn (#19315)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Erm...

A stat-cap won't bring people out to RP.  If everyone levels out at one place,
the strongest weapon will be the victor.  The viciousness will still continue.

--------------------------


Message 817 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Sun Apr 12 23:34:29 1998 CDT
From:     Moonheart (#20495)
To:       *ideas (#504)

Take it to chat

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Message 818 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 10:04:46 1998 CDT
From:     Quinn (#2)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Int/Caps

If stat caps were instituted, they'd be based off a new major attribute
measuring "mental capacity".  We'll call it "Intelligence", for lack of a
better word.

Perhaps  failure to learn a skill (boost) might result in your actually LOSING
some of that skill (setbacks due to "mislearned" lessons).

Anyway, I'm not opposed to some rational method of limiting skill, but I'm
firmly against any kind of arbitrary 'cap' on skills.

--------------------------


Message 819 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:46:05 1998 CDT
From:     Moonheart (#20495)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Mages to strong?

Rathe, Kzin, and Tor  may be about the strongest charcaters active but I don't
think that's got much to do with them being mages and the combat spells really
aren't that great if you compare them to just a thwap to the the head with a
good sword. So what's the problem with mages?

H

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Message 820 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:47:28 1998 CDT
From:     Sater (#4919)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Re: Moonheart

Well, first of all they have too many advantages and they're are just too many
mages.

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Message 821 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:48:11 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Here here.

Spells are pretty much useless. A good example happened a few days ago.. I
spelled Dante, he wielded, and KO'd me in one shot. Why? You can't wield while
casting, the spell barely hurt Dante.. Anyone who uses spells in combat is at
a serious disadvantage

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Message 822 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:50:29 1998 CDT
From:     Sater (#4919)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Ok

Yes spells suck but still the mage class has many advantages whichmany newbies
are up for, therefore not joining any other classes. I'm not saying to take
away the mage advantage but i think other classes like the submariners should
emerge with an advantage so the too can produce .

--------------------------


Message 823 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:52:04 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)

Well, that post didn't make much sense. Lemme try to decipher.
*reads a few times* ok. I think I gotchya.
What advantages does the mage class have to start? Glare.
thats it.
glare.
Worthless, piece of shit spell.
Anything else they want, they have to learn from a magister/adept/magus.

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Message 824 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:52:27 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)

Er, not dissing Stal's code on the glare front. But the spell is pretty much
useless ;)

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Message 825 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:53:47 1998 CDT
From:     Moonheart (#20495)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  3rd circle spells

should be pretty much useless <chuckles>

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Message 826 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 13:59:39 1998 CDT
From:     Nomar (#17488)
To:       *ideas (#504)

Yes But at least they get glare and restore. What do the subbies get when they
join? Nothing. They don't get a dome, a seahorse, no special weapons or skills
nothing. The only thing that they get is the ability to swim under water which
is the same as buying a .5k diving mask.
And Mages do have the ability to learn new things. With the other classes,
what they get when the start is bascially all that they can get.

--------------------------


Message 827 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 14:04:44 1998 CDT
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *ideas (#504)

They don't get restore anymore.
Riders get dragons
Soulmech pilots get mechs.
Crystal hunters don't really exist right now.
Subbies get to breathe underwater.

Why bitch about mages? Other than the fact that the subbies are kinda a dead
class (what, 3 active members at most?), Riders and mech pilots get a lot more
than mages. Do mages get the ability to destroy people in one hit, like mechs
and dragons do? I think not.
As for mage spells, well.. thermoblast? Anybody wearing armor and wielding a
weapon is basically immune to tblast. Hblast is the same. A mage gets one
spell off, you can kill them with one shot to the head. eeezy. Seekers really
don't get that much. Magisters get more.. But it takes -alot- to become a
magister. Adepts don't get much more than magisters, and it takes even more to
become an adept.
My point?
Well, shut up and stop whining :)

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Message 828 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 17:17:14 1998 CDT
From:     Anubis (#22578)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  Classes

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with stats or classes. In
real life a doctor gets paid more than a plumber right, even though we need
both professions. Some jobs/classes are just more powerful. Same thing with
stats. If everyone could KO everyone in one hit, how fun would that be? Very
little. My earlier post, well, I just like conflict and debate, but I hold to
my possition about very few heroes. I'm not complaining about it (Anubis is
hardly a saint.) it's just what I see.

--------------------------


Message 829 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 19:49:41 1998 CDT
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *ideas (#504)
Subject:  idea

Since every 2 or three months we go through posting ideas and complaints about
looting, killing and none roll-playing players, why don't you just make one
large part of the moo warded. This would give newer players a safe haven to rp
with out the danger of coded death. It would allow those who would rather just
be talking heads to play their char's more realistically. Make ic only,
perhaps allowing players to go ooc but they lose the ability to move or speak.

Leave the other part of the moo unwarded.  Make the escapes quicker and the
ability to hide for those of us who enjoy coded combat and the excitement of a
good chase. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, you can change it back. But
at least this way the yelling of unfair would stop.

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Message 830 from *ideas (#504):
Date:     Mon Apr 13 21:51:06 1998 CDT
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *ideas (#504)

I remember hearing that there was going to be a "warded" area nearly a year
back (give or take a few months).

--------------------------