Message 1 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 31 13:15:49 1993 CST From: Hemlock (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: *ideas Post general brainstorming here. -------------------------- Message 2 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 31 16:18:06 1993 CST From: Frobno (#503) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: uses for a collective object For those who aren't familiar with the 'collective object' class, it's a single VR object which can be used to represent a collection of like-objects. Most notably, it's used on the Lambda MOO RPG for coinage. When a coins are brought to the same .location and are of compatible currency, they consolidate into one VR object, and superfluous ones are recycled. I think we could get many, many other, more interesting uses from this basic concept, though. Say such a collective object also had a property on it which was its decay rate, and another representing how easily the object could be perceived (through the various skills/basic stats Hemlock is devising now). One of Hemlock's task schedulers ('hearts') could periodically check over all the collectives lying about, and when they had fully 'decayed'-- recycle them. This has MANY possible uses. For example, if a weapon fires ammunition which ejects shell casings, those could be left lying on the floor. The beauty of it is that only players who have adequate perceptional skills would see it, too. PLUS, a collective doesn't have to represent a purely tangible object. Weapons might not leave 'casings' as what I will call a .by_product, but might leave a smell as a slowly decaying, lingering trace. Again, if your player has the necessary perceptional skills, whether natural or through the use of other objects to enhance them, these things would go unnoticed. There are many other possibilities for by-products, too: bio and EM, and radiation signatures from items or people. And all you need to do to 'see' them is make a 'scanner' object which pipes a room's :look_self() through it with certain perception modifiers enhanced. To regular players, most everything will be 'hidden' in the VR sense, so something like this will add a certain excitement. Also, it's fun if you're engaged in combat with an elusive enemy, and you KNOW you've got that ace up your sleeve to help you track him. We'd have to determine how tick-intensive something like this, but it sounds feasible to me. -------------------------- Message 3 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Mar 7 23:45:47 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) How about an 'insta-flee' feature for pets? For the cowardly or humanitarian ones. -------------------------- Message 4 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 8 00:05:19 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) I use puppets as NPC's, to further a story. Could we make it so that they have an 'asleep/awake' tag that reflects whether or not a GM is running them, rather than whether 'monitor' is on or off? On a similar note, could $puppets who are not meant as 'combat opponents' be shipped to their .home if their owner logs off? -------------------------- Message 5 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 18 06:42:01 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) I'd like to be able to toggle look-notify on and off, and also have a way to check if someone else's is on or off. -------------------------- Message 6 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Apr 1 12:15:20 1994 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: how about something like a bulletin board in the lounge? to prevent the pile of business cards and other things in there.. make it a little neater. -------------------------- Message 7 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu May 19 18:06:57 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Idea for a command to add: Try this idea for an RPg command: @compare. This command's purpose is to compare the attributes of two players against each other, in whatever RPed way they came up with. For example: Bob (strength 67) and Lou (strength 53) decide to get into an arm-wrestling match. Bob|:takes Lous's hand, and pushes. Bob|@compare strength with lou Lou sees>Bob is trying to challenge you to a battle of strength. Please type '@compare strength with Bob' to continue. Much like the @polite on the Lambda dancing feature. Lou could have compared his quickness, with Bob's strength, but it would be announced as such. Lou|@compare strength with bob Room>Bob and Lou enter into a contest of strength vs. Strength. Bob sees>You have a notable advantage over Lou's Strength. Lou sees>You have a notable disadvatage over Bob's strength. The disadvantage/advantage scale is dependent on the actual difference between stats. At this point, skill rolls are made, to determine the outcome. I suggestthat a certan amount of success be needed to finish, with repeated rolls untilthat level is reached, with announcements like, Room>Bob gains some ground. Room>Lou holds steady. Room>Bob loses a little bit of ground. Room>Lou loses ground. Room>Bob has defeated Lou in his contest of strength! I don't know exactly how this would be coded, but would be glad to help in any way I can if anyone cares to try.. -------------------------- Message 8 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat May 21 03:18:41 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @compare VS. accessibility and virtuality @compare means you have to have 'stats'. I'd rather this MOO did NOT have a character generation section, because that makes it significantly less accessible to the new player. Many of our players have never been anywhere but a local BBS chat board or IRC. The new player must be able to log in and immediately beginn playing. It's bad enough they have to learn things like 'wield weapon' or '@desc me as '. They should not have to learn a new mechanic such as @compare. Virtuality is the game-world equivalent of 'reality'. Ghostwheel's design strongly supports this by making objects and furniture and combat opponents so players don't stress each other's credibility with spoofing. A large part of virtuality is that what one player sees, another will, too, but from their own proper perspective. This means that Ghostwheel will not have a zillion player character classes like Lambda does. It also means that I'd rather not even have 'voluntary' @compare as a feature object. I just feel that the compromise lets us off the hook here when we ought to go through with supporting virtual reality the best we can. @compare could be a WONDERFUL RPG tool, don't get me wrong here; I like the basic idea. BUT. It can't be idiot-proofed, and it can give people the impression that the way to roleplay is to walk around and rock-scissors-paper each other. On the other hand, I am in favor of letting players see their stats. How can I RP a character when I don't know what it is? If my 'rapier' skill happens to get real good due to random chance, I'd like to know it. --Razorhawk -------------------------- Message 9 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun May 29 15:22:33 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: *In-Character (*IC) mailing list This would be a mailing list for character concepts, in character rumors and news, hints for plots, etc. In general, a mailing list for _player's_ benefit, by encouraging RP. -Gray -------------------------- Message 10 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue May 31 02:18:14 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Needed to build: An infirmary somewhere in R/T center. For when people need healing, and can't find anyone uninjured to help. -------------------------- Message 11 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue May 31 09:15:30 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) quinn -------------------------- Message 12 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue May 31 09:18:13 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Medic Skill: Screw realism; it;s annoying as hell to be out of action for hours because any healing attempt will likely kill me, and have to wait for hours for someone to help you heal, only to find that they're in similar staits. Arrgh! -------------------------- Message 13 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 1 00:48:12 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Add custom prop to weapons for swing/thrust/whatever Could someone please move the %n % to the weapon's customisable @messages? I have recieved complaint from Quinn for having a broadsword as a staff, but it's the only weapon parent I could use that I could 'swing'. (I can't make a staff, and a rapier says I 'thrust'.) -------------------------- Message 14 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 1 15:22:29 1994 CDT From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: weapon msgs... are stored on a remote object.. not on the weapon itself. -Stal -------------------------- Message 15 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jun 2 22:39:57 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Doors: Add a command to be able to knock or yell through them. -------------------------- Message 16 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jun 3 00:05:41 1994 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: knock/yell You can 'knock on door', and saying anything ending in an exclamation point will usually yell it through an open exit. Individual owners can edit the sound_permeability of closed (or open) exit/door. -------------------------- Message 17 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jun 12 19:54:42 1994 CDT From: Mariner (#1485) To: *ideas (#504) Gray's @compare verb would be cool I think. Irl, you could prolly tell if someone was say stronger than you or whatever by looking at them. Maybe not a specific skill like melee could be told but strengh prolly could. -------------------------- Message 18 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jun 12 22:21:17 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) It would be-- but please remember that we are not just host to 'gamers', we have people with no concept of 'dice rolling' and 'stats'. Hopefully we can get these mechanics to function organically, without drawing attention to the artificiality of numbers. That's why, when you're wounded, it doesn't say '51 Hit Points left', it says you 'have some scratches and bruises.' The choice to do the latter, but not the former, is an aesthetic one; if you wish for more control of your character in combat, to 'ruleplay' rather than 'roleplay' then you would probably be happier in a 'MUD'. I recommend Chaos.bga.com 4000 for true connoiseurs of violence and bloodshed (like me :). Combat here can be brutal, dangerous, and unpredictable-- which can make it all the more thrilling. -------------------------- Message 19 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jun 12 22:24:55 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) (to Mariner) The questions of 1) how your initial stats are determined, 2) whether or not a player can see the statistics, and 3) what good is @compare, are all still undecided... The answers probably have to come in the same order, with Quinn making the decisions. -------------------------- Message 20 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jun 13 01:46:15 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) 1> I'm sure it'll work out soon enough. 2>and 3>: Well, they need some way to know what they're good at.. I think maybe a player should just be told what his/her 2 best stats are (not the #, whic one) and let them @compare to find where they are in the pecking order. Refer to Amber RPG for arguments FOR., I don't want to repeat 'em here.. -------------------------- Message 21 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jun 13 15:16:55 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Quinn, could you please add a .outdoors property to all places? If .outdoors is set to 1, then the room may be presumed to be 'outdoors', probably with no ceiling, and you can fly there. If .outdoors is 0, the location is an indoors location to which a dragon cannot be 'summoned'. Does this make sense? It seems easier than tagging all doors 'leads to an indoor location' or 'leads to an outdoor location'. -------------------------- Message 22 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jun 13 18:34:55 1994 CDT From: Mariner (#1485) To: *ideas (#504) or have something like the inspect verb. So this isn't for rpging? -------------------------- Message 23 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 15 20:25:21 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Would be nice if @examine would also return exits, their dbref #'s, their sources (w/ #), and their dests (w/ #). For builders & wiz's. -------------------------- Message 24 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 15 20:28:07 1994 CDT From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: @examine modification Would that include -all- exits, or only obvious ones? -Stal -------------------------- Message 25 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 15 21:09:48 1994 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) For the OWNER, or Wiz's, all exits. Obvious exits [but without dbref #'s, sources or dests) would be -nice- if listed under "examine" (not @examine). -------------------------- Message 26 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jul 22 12:36:07 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) I think that the rapier in the Replicator should be transformed into something usable as a generic thrusting weapon; rapiers are so specific in the messages, that they CAN'T be customised. Also, I suggest that a missile weapon be added to the replicator. Not nessessarily a -good- missile weapon, but -a- missile weapon. That, or make the combat messages on weapons customisable, which would work MUCH better, removing the troubles with people swinging their thrusting weapons, etc. -------------------------- Message 27 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jul 22 19:10:24 1994 CDT From: Zachary (#445) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: missile weapons How does one create a missile weapon when there is no real concept of space, only a concept of locations and connectedness? shoot thru doors, etc? I mean, fighting in a tunnel I'd rather pull a knife or shortsword than a gun due to ricochets and also ease of use once I've closed on someone - I can use my knife, but their gun is not so easy... even less easy in tight quarters, or close up, is a rifle or bow. slings are pretty much impossible to use in close quarters except as strangling weapons :) --Zachary, the Phantom from the Waste -------------------------- Message 28 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jul 22 19:33:47 1994 CDT From: Ardrian (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: missile weapons & the concept of 'space' First off, there are two types of locations one can @dig, indoors and outdoors. This isn't implemented yet. Presumably, a flyer can't fly when indoors (flying involves changing the exiting/entering string, and other factors). An exit between two outdoors locations can't be 'blocked', and if you look in that direction, it's too far to see who is standing there. Currently, you can throw something through an exit. Quinn intends for missile weapons to be usable between rooms indoors. He has already has a start on 'grenades', which are tossed into the next room and then blow up, injuring those not agile enough to dive for cover. Secondly, missile weapons are statistically different from hand-to-hand weapons. They aren't worth a darn for parrying; they may be 'slow'; they may require reloading (possibly; not sure if Quinn wants to emulate LambdaMOO's longbow mechanic); and they tend to have high 'penetration' (reduce the effectiveness of armor). Missile weapons probably won't be as effective as they are IRL. In an effort to allow a wider variety of character hooks (whip-wielder; street fighter; samurai; monk-with-a-staff), weapon statistics fall in a relatively narrow range. --Raisinhawk -------------------------- Message 29 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 23 03:39:21 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Add a tell so that if someone is blocking an exit, and someone tries to pass from the far side of the exit, that the blocker is informed of it. -------------------------- Message 30 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 23 03:57:46 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Need a way to lose followers.\ -------------------------- Message 31 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Aug 23 04:13:23 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Aught to make 'kill __' default to 'kill first ___'. -------------------------- Message 32 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 26 00:55:38 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Schroedinger_pulse This would likely be a good thing to have: Create a pulsed timer, which can be accessed from objects that players can chage. Add the capacity to record whenever someone is monitoring the area in which the objects are, between pulses. If the players tinker with the item, it waits until a certain number of pulses (likely configurable) have passed with no listeners around, before resetting. -------------------------- Message 33 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 26 00:58:11 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Maybe it would be an idea to make players unlocatable, but still visible on WHO somehow? -------------------------- Message 34 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 26 19:32:53 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Perhaps you could institute a form of the page answering-machine, as found on PMC-MOO and some places in Lambda? It is very convenient and DB friendly. -------------------------- Message 35 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 26 20:11:36 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Idea: Attackable, lockable doorways; which can be broken in with lots of loud crunching and attacks with sufficient force to penetrate their armor. Good place to use a schroedinger routine, too. -------------------------- Message 36 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Aug 27 20:03:09 1994 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: size I need input on how you'd like size to be stored. Would a full array of dimensions ({length, depth, width}) be worth it, or would a general "size" property (probably representing volume) be better? We can't do vehicles realistically until we have size worked out. -------------------------- Message 37 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 26 21:48:24 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) It'd be nice to be able to create a list property of commands to do on connecting and disconnecting, like make a connect file that does @who, etc on login, or 'drop tent' 'enter tent' on ogout, etc.. -------------------------- Message 38 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 27 01:07:09 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) How about a mass-pager? A command to say, page bob mary joe worelheimer quinn with ... or something? -------------------------- Message 39 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Oct 22 00:31:39 1994 CDT From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: finger cmd? Perhaps a 'finger' command might be useful? It would be a combination where/@who/@lastlog which could also show the player the contents of some .finger_msg on set on the target player, as well as, say, gender and builderflags, etc.? Not exactly IC but a very handy command nevertheless, IMHO. -------------------------- Message 40 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 15 01:46:43 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Need to be able to make emote-macros, kinda like personalised socialverbs. By the time I managed to type in what sort of stance I took to attack, they killed the thing we were fighting.. :( -------------------------- Message 41 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 15 03:25:32 1994 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: macros I don't think it's the place of the MOO to be providing macros for people. I may add bully/threaten/intimidate verb to the generic wieldable with custom messages, but that kinda stuff is as far as I'll go towards 'social verbs'. -------------------------- Message 42 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 24 22:42:53 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Uh.. Why can I walk into the sky above the R/T building? -------------------------- Message 43 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 24 22:46:28 1994 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) RTsky You're not walking, you're flying. Duh! ;> -------------------------- Message 44 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Nov 25 18:16:17 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: #42 by Gray-- 'Why can I walk into the sky above the R/T building?' First off, this obviously falls under the category of 'bugs'. Please send stuff like this to *bugs. The 'fly' option is there for those who can fly. If the the doorway said 'sprout horns and turn blue,' there would be ambiguity as to whether the gate -conferred- the ability or simply offered the option to those who already possess the talents for such activities. The 'fly' door will be neither visible nor passable to those who are not -coded- to fly. y.t., RH. P.S. If something is 'going to be fixed later, don't worry', it is STILL very much 'a bug.' -------------------------- Message 45 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 1 13:18:13 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Perhaps a command like the Cybersphere 'slash/stab/chop/swing with could be added to weapons? -------------------------- Message 46 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 1 17:14:36 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Datapads I think that the Datapads should be changed into PCs which can read library files, chips, stored info, take notes, and all those nifty things. Also, an @stats command with a Cybersphere-like display (Descriptive words, not 11111111, 2222222222222 which is visually unappealing), as well as a skill and command to 'size up' other players and creatures, probably somewhat like the Laggda INS command. -gray -------------------------- Message 47 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 1 21:51:54 1994 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: datapad The datapads are _supposed_ to be a technical overview, not a descriptive embellishment. I wrote both @stats and inspect at Cybersphere, and will probably port over both, but want to get a mechanism for setting hair/eye colour, etc first. If you're getting 1111 and 2222 on your datapad then you're set for ANSI when you shouldn't be. Or maybe you just can't display high-ASCII characters. Which could very well be. You mean in the bars next to attributes? -Q -------------------------- Message 48 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 3 21:12:16 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Hey, can we get A: A command to review obvious exits quickly B: A command to see how hurt everyone in the room appears. -------------------------- Message 49 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 3 21:49:36 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Maybe you aught to use a more normal ASCII symbol for the databad bars that we can actually see? That's the only aspect of ASCII I seem to have great trouble with. -------------------------- Message 50 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 3 21:50:33 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: sittable places FYI, if somebody types 'sit' without specifying where, they will sit at the first place mentioned in the room description. Might be nice to have @seats. This would list a) names of possible places to sit or b) for occupied furniture, repeat the room integration messages. @seats Possible seats here: table with chairs Quinn is seated at the desk. Bronson is lying atop the bar. On a similar note, I've given it alot of thought and think that all locations should permit one to sit, by default, upon the floor. Those places where one can -not- sit could have @no_seat and @ono_seat messages. Capacity should default to 15 (for the sake of server sanity, and keeping 'tt' overhead low), and be reconfigurable to a lower number in the case of a smaller space. For a room with a special floor, the default seating would be set to 0, and floor $furniture object would be @lock-ed in place. -------------------------- Message 51 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 3 21:59:02 1994 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Might be nice to be able to pop crystals into a friend's mouth. feed crystals to -------------------------- Message 52 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 4 00:13:47 1994 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: misc You CAN `feed crystals to yourbuddy`, but yourbuddy needs to trust you to feed em. Allowing someone to sit on the ground would mean hacking sitting capability into ALL ROOMS, boosting both the size and complexity of the standard room class and all its descendants. I'm wary of doing that, especially since a new machine and more memory is not within immediate sight. If one has ANSI on, the datapad uses ANSI. I could allow for setting special display options on each datapad, and have considered it. Do `@ansi off` and look at the pad for the ASCII characters. -------------------------- Message 53 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 4 00:58:16 1994 CST From: Drago (#2307) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Special floors Would not setting default seating to 0 make it awfully easy for ..ahem ...the more devious RPGers, unlike m'self, to work out a secret entranceor the like? Drago (Always the thorough gent.) -------------------------- Message 54 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 7 00:51:19 1994 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) How about a command to either yell or make a lot of noise (emote) which is more likely to be heard through doors? Emotes normally aren't heard at all. -------------------------- Message 55 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 17 03:56:01 1995 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Perhaps htere should be a 'Can't pitch a tent here what are you some sort of deviant???' flag so people will stop camping in bathrooms and stuff? -------------------------- Message 56 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Feb 18 15:25:53 1995 CST From: Janus (#3597) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Forward from MOOsaico Date: Thu Feb 16 12:48:14 1995 MET From: LordChaos (#334) To: *Programmers-Forum (#611) Subject: Announcing Frobs The concept I will be introducing here is one of a builtin datatype which exists on the ColdMud server: lightweight objects, which it calls frobs. Lightweight objects are quite similar to usual objects except that their representation enables them to occupy less space then their object counterpart and furthermore be much cheaper to create. To create an usual object, it takes an identifier from the database, then it creates the properties inherited from his parents to his level. adds it to the owner's list of owned objects, deduces its size from his quota, adds it to the database of objects, etc... Now suppose that you have a problem which would be solved in an elegant and easier way by using objects, but in the particular case, it would need many objects, which would have no verbs defined on them, and that those objects would have a rather short life. The resources wasted for creating and maintaning those objects would be far too expensive to adopt that solution. But, using frobs, such a problem could be implementing without wasting so much resources. Let me introduce now how the frobs are represented: a frob is a lightweight object. Its representation consists of his parent and the data that object has. All the methods(verbs) that object has are simply inherited from his parent. In ColdMud, the representation for frobs is , on MOOs I propose {$frob, parent, objid}. The reason why I propose objid and not data is because I prefer to add a level of security and encapsulation and thus hold the frob's data in private storage. The way frobs would be used would be the following: One would create the parent in question as a kid of $frob. And there defining all the methods that the frobs will need (as well as some auxiliary verbs which might be necessary). To create a frob, one simply calls: objid=parent:new(data) This will return the objid of the new frob which is necessary to further reference to the frob, such as sending messages to it. To send messages to a frob one calls: parent:send(objid,verbname,@args) This calls parent:verbname(objid,@args), i.e. it calls the verb on the parent inserting the objid before the arguments passed to send. Inside the verbs defined in the parent, to access or modify the data of the frob, one uses parent:get_data(objid) and parent:set_data(objid,data) these verbs are private to the parent and may only be called by other methods defined in that parent. To destroy the data of a frob, one uses parent:destroy(objid) This call may only be done by the person who created the frob. Now, a simple demonstration of the difference in storage space from frobs to real objects. @create #1 named obj @prop obj.a "a" @measure breakdown obj Object overhead: 64 Properties, defined and inherited, sorted by size: aliases: 28 object_size: 24 a: 2 Total size of properties: 54 Property overhead: 174 Grand total: 292 On the other hand: ;$frob:new("a"); ;$quota_utils:value_bytes($frob.heap[1]) => 42 Gain: 250 bytes in a single object. @prop obj.b "b" @measure breakdown obj Object overhead: 64 Properties, defined and inherited, sorted by size: aliases: 28 object_size: 24 b: 2 a: 2 Total size of properties: 56 Property overhead: 200 Grand total: 320 ;$frob:new("a","b") ;$quota_utils:value_bytes($frob.heap[1]) => 52 Gain: 268 bytes. I think these two examples are enough to prove my point. -LC -------------------------- Message 57 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Feb 18 17:35:00 1995 CST From: Janus (#3597) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: About: Frobs I think this Frobs thing may interest you for handling animals/monsters, animals/monster corpse, and the crystals generated by animals/monsters corpse "decay". I'm sure you might find hundreds of other way to use that... Janus -------------------------- Message 58 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Feb 20 03:54:09 1995 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Need seperate strip/ostrip msgs, like weapons, so you can make custom messages to tell the stripper that aren't public. -------------------------- Message 59 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 24 11:56:17 1995 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Quinn, maybe you can add a security bott in the connectsie that, upon a character's first connecting, 'beeps, scans %N with it's laser identification devices, and downloads %p file into the registry.' or something? -------------------------- Message 60 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Feb 25 08:50:12 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: --Frobs I've been an advocate of `Shadow Items' from the start. (`Frobs' being specific to a few systems.) Shadow Items in Patrick Hunlock's Cyberspace are tagged with a few further bits, toggled via questionnaire during creation. These were vanishes_when_dropped (has a message for this event), and can_only_have_one (because C'space didn't have anything like our 1., 2., 3. diku-style parsing. Yes, you're saving dbspace because you're carrying a lightweight pointer to the parent. The "hazard" of them is that GhostMOO is stylistically far more virtual than most MUEs, even more than most MOO's. We're -already- pushing the limits of credibility when Bronson's drink bottles self-annihilate. These "game-isms" are kept carefully to a minimum, giving the place a sophistication that Lambda lacks. In essence... the dreaded Virtuality Police. ;) We do have @chain here (locks an item down so that it is get-able and use-able but cannot be put in a container or carried off). For instance, there is a public medkit in the infirmary. (Well, there is now. It kept getting ripped off. ;) I've also asked Quinn to adapt the "timed yank" mechanic he has on Lambda (kill Cookie, take his cleaver, and some time later, Cookie resurrects, and the cleaver... well, see for yourself). Unlike @chain, this is really a more difficult thing to explain to the player when it happens. It isn't in use now because we've temporarily banned this sort of event (like portal expiration). On the down side, if we use it too much the world becomes a big scavenger hunt puzzle instead of a social environment credible to grown-ups. On the up side, this -is- a universe with magic, and there can be a few special things with the mystic property of self-relocation. I have three objects that I'd recommend be shadowobjects: fresh flowers (grow wilted when discarded), barfood and bardrinks, and one-shot-use items (dragon oil, and a few others). -------------------------- Message 61 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Mar 2 22:50:32 1995 CST From: Dylan (#1142) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: What if we all had laps? Supposing there is a beautiful girl that would like to sit on our 'lap' Could something of the seat/chair coding be available to the player so that when seated on something, there is a 'lap' which can be set on. This may also allow 'dogpiles' of lots of people to sit/lie upon one person, disallowing thier movement. Just a thot...... -------------------------- Message 62 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 3 09:37:12 1995 CST From: Zesha (#2187) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Crystals Isn't there _something_ I can do with my crystals? I getting tired of just hoarding them. What's the purpose? -------------------------- Message 63 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Mar 5 00:30:57 1995 CST From: Clara_Bow (#2376) To: *ideas (#504) Why not reap all the inactive players as well to get some more quota back? -------------------------- Message 64 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Mar 9 16:59:44 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) It would be nice to be able to hear a ringing Comm if it was in a container you were carrying. I carry my comm around in a bag, and I can never tell when someone's calling me. -------------------------- Message 65 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 10 12:11:01 1995 CST From: Talin (#4095) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: A love modifier... I was wondering how long I could hold off before I started either asking for a builder bit or started blabbering my ideas to everyone in sight... Well, no bit requests, but here's my first thought... A love property in which you could declare your love for a person. In most cases, this wouldn't mean anything, but in a combat situation, it would move things around some. If the person your loved became severely injured or became unconscious, you would leave whatever you were fighting and concentrate on the threat to him/her/it. Perhaps a temporary boost to your combat scores to simulate the rush that comes with protecting the one you love. Of course, to compensate, there would have to be a temporary drop in defensive skills for a time afterwards... Me -------------------------- Message 66 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 10 22:34:07 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Hey, what about a... bank? You would deposit crystals, and they would keep `em for ya. And if somebody wanted gold coins instead of crystals, it could exchance currencys. Of course, it would take a little of it... for costs. Like an ATM. -------------------------- Message 67 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Mar 13 10:10:45 1995 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Potential stuff Hiya folks, this isn't an idea so much as a bunch o' questions that I haven't been able to get answered propery er, properly, so if any of you can help me out, I'd be most grateful. Ok...there's this massive list in the charactergen rooms of all the various things you can buy aside from stats with your potential points (i.e. a noble lineage, retainers, a keep, etc etc) Has any of this been coded? I noticed that next to the description for a SoulMech it said it wasn't available so does that mean that everything else is? If so, how does one go about purchasing them? (I may have just missed a command here or something...). Also, there was mention of gaining potential in the form of 3 pts 1st week, 2 pts the second, and one every week thereafter. Well, it's been a while, and no potential.. I know that we don't gain potential from praciting stats so we're at the mercy of whoever's coding this (assuming it's not done already and I'm just missing everything). If so, when it is finally finished, will we get 'back potential' or will we all be reset to week 1 in terms of potential gain? >gasp<. Well, that's it; if anyone can answer some or all of my questions (either on here if other people are confused) or with just mail to me, I'd be most content. Thankee much. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 68 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Mar 18 02:54:02 1995 CST From: Mendolin (#2799) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: two points. Okay, just two ideas for new monsters; 1st; furry furry's, small fuzzy little creatures, are aggressive. If knocked unconscious, and then healed/revived, will cease attack. Also, if feed with crystals, will befriend feeder. These things are easily killed, cute, but also bite. A feeder would have say a 90% chance of a friendly furry furry to become a follower and attack with them. 2nd; small/large leeches, blood sucking critters that really get annoying. Small ones would come in groups of 10 or more, and are aggressive. Easily killed, and cannot be knocked out. Every hit by them, has 60% chance of latching onto an extremity. the victims mobility is decreaed a small amount for every latched leech. Would need blood points for players, small ones fall off after taking an amount, and give dmg when they fall off, but easily killed after that. Large amount of dmg taken if they're pulled off, and also unconscious befalls one if blood points reaches a low, or an endurance check is failed. Large leechs roam alone, do dmg while latched on. Needed to be killed to drop off, blood points also taken while latched on. Any comments? I'm just getting bored at the same bunch of creatures out there. ---- Mendolin. -------------------------- Message 69 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Mar 18 23:35:21 1995 CST From: ShadowFox (#2753) To: *ideas (#504) How about bronson being able to refill drinks? Like if we have a glass of diet coke, described and all, then we could ask bronson and he would refill it instead of making a new one each time. -------------------------- Message 70 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Mar 19 18:56:14 1995 CST From: Nebula (#1730) To: *ideas (#504) re:leeches Leeches live in water. What water would we put them in? Nb -------------------------- Message 71 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 21 11:08:58 1995 CST From: Divad (#2187) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Wendigos Just an idle question.... Why don't Wendigos have actual eyes? -------------------------- Message 72 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 21 23:38:48 1995 CST From: ShadowFox (#2753) To: *ideas (#504) Handcuffs/restraints anyone? -------------------------- Message 73 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 22 02:02:41 1995 CST From: Nebula (#1730) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: question Would a nutso Amusement Park,(with rides, etc) be useful for players who do not care for killing critters and fighting? It could be a theme(ly) one. Feedback appreciated. -------------------------- Message 74 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Mar 27 03:57:33 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) I'm making it my holy quest this next week to make cool stuff. Little objects that do quirky things. Not DB hogging, bloated, gigantic quests... just a few nifty things. -------------------------- Message 75 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Apr 1 01:07:24 1995 CST From: Dylan (#1142) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Is there a way to make 'heal' a definate partial-heal? Like stun is designed to not kill, could there be an 'assist' command that Would not-heal. But help the other PC to heal themselves? Just a thot, I dunno mebbe it is not a viable problem. and thinking 'bout it most folks are doing fine... Thank you for your Achtung! Dylan -------------------------- Message 76 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Apr 1 06:08:02 1995 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Assist: Dylan's idea in a different form actually sounds pretty good. Use 'assist' as a queued action to give someone a bonus on their ability in general, probably based on a skill or the skill you're assisting with. In combat, for instance, it might take the form of stepping into a guard position over them (NOT the same as a defend..), or distracting their opponent.. with medicine, it might be handing instruments and lights.. In general, being helpful. :) -Gray -------------------------- Message 77 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Apr 2 21:43:38 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Ideas, ideas... Character Advantages- This is all un-coded. It is low priority because I've seen it done without virtual object support on muds for over two decades now. Please write your Advantages in your .plan property (see game finger and finger Razorhawk for an example). Please ask a Wizard for an AHaB if you have bought the Sidekick advantage. Most of the other stuff I'm afraid you'll have to imagine it on your own for now. Tougher Monsters- Sorry, this isn't going to happen. Ghostwheel Plain is absurdly crowded with creatures; this is for testing purposes and they'll soon get thinned out. There -will- be new and different creatures, but at the moment we're testing how MANY the server can safely handle. The creature creators have been deliberately asked not to make their behaviours too detailed. LambdaMOO's RPG had lots of overly-unique opponents and this would detract from the level of realism we're doing here. So we won't have "Gadget", who scans your description for any synonym of the word "cat" and, if she finds it, is then afraid of you. And we won't have elaborate puzzles that, if two people who had solved it compared notes, would realize were identical (imagine Indiana Jones emerging from the jungle temple with the golden idol, then running into some other guy with an idol telling a third, "better bring a whip; there's this wall that drops down, see..."). Am brainstorming on a way to allow players limited building. I think this will probably be done with clever use of tents for now. --your mistress of mayhem, RH -------------------------- Message 78 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Apr 5 08:20:30 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: RH/AHaBs We _will_ have "complex" creatures. What we will not have is automated puzzles which can be solved more than once. Doing so would mean that each player has eir own "quantum bubble" and that certain consequences of certain actions apply exist only in eir mind. For those familiar with Darkrime in LRPG, we won't have little Timothy being resurrected an infinite number of times, each with his father's increasingly familiar joy and surprise. In short: there will be no puzzles relying on automated reactions from creatures which are not in-character automatons. It subverts our reality by exposing the artificiality of our AI. Expanding that dictum, there will be no BEHAVIOUR which is perceptibly automated. Tired speeches from NPCs fall into this category. Simple utterances are allowed, however. For example, Fred the Fish could "glub" all he likes, without arousing any suspicions of it being an artificial behaviour. Count how many times you "grin" in one online session. However, it would be suspiciously monotonous of him to repeat "Hello. I am a talking fish." every time someone entered the room. I think Razorhawk and I both agree that it would be best if most of our NPCs were either: (A) Incapable of speech (lower animals), (B) controlled by a player character, or (C) an in-character android, robot, automaton, replicant, etc. You make the decision. The above are merely guidelines. However, if you have an NPC walking around, making it painfully obvious that he is an NPC trying to act human, you may get mail from one of us. Don't feel confused or restricted by this. If you have a serious doubt, just ask. Razorhawk, myself, or any GM. Get some objective feedback from others. ----- Personally, I'd prefer a few new batches of interesting prototypes rather than unique NPCs, unless those unique NPCs are played very well by their creators. ROUS, Cainid, and Slisssh stand out more to me than any of our "personality" NPCs. -Quinn -------------------------- Message 79 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Apr 7 01:47:54 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Crippling Hello. Since we can, in all realism, choose to stun/knockout opponents, I was wondering if perhaps there should be a way we can purposefully cripple them. Maybe there is, but otherwise, I think it would be a good idea. It seems especially realistic when they are already knocked out and you can hamstring 'em at your leisure. Anyway, so far it looks like the 'cripple zones' are divided into two rather cloudy areas, upper and lower mobility. These, when reduced, affect strength and dex and such (which most of you probably knew). However, I think it would be a good @ic idea to include crippling in more specific areas. For example, 'Cripple Wendigo's head', if successful, would reduce willpower and perhaps perception instead of movement, since if your brain's running at 75%, you'll wander around like an automaton. Of course, it would be completely fair game for monsters and such to cripple you if they ever managed to knock you out; I'm not fishing for a game imbalance. Anyway, there it is. Elendil-- It's cold, and there are wolves after me. -------------------------- Message 80 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Apr 7 19:06:51 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: crippling You _can_ cripple intentionally. Just aim for the extremities. Individual body area damage isn't worth the complexity, especially since our body areas here are so flexible. We'd need to keep individual lists for each area. As of now, any lethal strike to a non-vital is a cripple. You'd have to be a pretty damn good fighter to cripple someone's HEAD in combat without killing them. -------------------------- Message 81 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Apr 8 03:15:27 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Puppets & Combat To make puppet ownership more fair in combat, what if player-owned puppets would only attack if given the order to do so, and that order was an official combat command to be queued? Puppets add alot to the game; letting puppets take damage for a player is a sort of reward for the player taking the effort to run an extra character. -RH -------------------------- Message 82 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Apr 17 00:56:46 1995 CDT From: Dylan (#1142) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I was wondering why it is that we cannot attack through exits. . . Most especially if there is a person blocking from the other side. I understand that we do not want to be in a situation where you can be hit by someone that is not in the same room with you. But if you are blocking an exit, and someone IC needs to get through there, it would be more realistic to be able to accost the person blocking the exit. . . If possible this would be very nice. Thank you. Dylan. -------------------------- Message 83 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Apr 18 03:17:12 1995 CDT From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Elendil I'm sending this message for Elendil, because he can't get his @send command (some wizard might want to look in to that). He would like to be considered for the mining engineer postition mentioned awhile back in the newspaper. He would also like to apologize for sending it here, he doesn't know where else to send it (maybe RH). Thanks a bunch. -Deckard/Elendil- -------------------------- Message 84 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Apr 21 00:38:43 1995 CDT From: Dylan (#1142) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Uhm, regarding attacking through exits. I know that you predicted this letter Quinn, so I'll be brief. The attack ques up but is aborted as if the victim has left the room. Thanks again.! Dylan. -------------------------- Message 85 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Apr 29 04:39:38 1995 CDT From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: more blocking This may already be true, but if not, I think that a blocking character who is knocked unconcious, automatically unblocks the door. -------------------------- Message 86 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Apr 30 06:17:55 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: unconscious blockers That is correct, Deck. Knock someone unconscious, and they will no longer be blocking the door. -------------------------- Message 87 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri May 12 09:51:55 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Homepage? OOC: I finally got around to checking out the vv.com homepage (for those of you who don't know what this is, don't worry). Anyway, I think it'd be good if GW had one; I don't know how feasible or time-consuming it is to create one, but I think that it would be a really neat addition to both the net, and to the users here. Anyway, there it is. -------------------------- Message 88 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri May 12 15:55:14 1995 CDT From: Guru (#2509) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: GW Homepage A Web homepage is under development currently. You are welcome to visit this page at: http://www.realtime.com/~theguru/gwmoo.html We would like to include some original artwork to these pages. If you know of anyone that can help us in this area, please contact Guru or Quinn. Any and all comments regarding these Web pages will be welcome. -------------------------- Message 89 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat May 27 14:37:25 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Should be able to just fire a ranged weapon into the air or something. -------------------------- Message 90 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jun 2 23:09:39 1995 CDT From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Guard I think when you guard someone you should take hits aimed at them, perhaps your ability to do so would be based on agility or quickness or such, instead of just getting a message about rushing valiantly to their side. Maybe this already happens, but I've never seen it. Thanks -------------------------- Message 91 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jun 11 22:42:21 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: guarding Guarding just redirects the parry/dodge to the guarding player rather than the person they're guarding. Damage, however, is inflicted on trhe guarded person if the guard failed. Hrm. That doesn't read too clearly. Anyway, you're suggestion is noted and a good one, Deck. Just not too easy to implement smoothly. -------------------------- Message 92 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jun 14 18:28:35 1995 CDT From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Homes I was wondering if there was anyway to go to sleep somewhere that's not your home, and wake up there, and if not, could there be? I mean sleep and wake as in connect, and disconnect. Thanks. -------------------------- Message 93 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jun 19 06:00:37 1995 CDT From: Selina (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mundane Ordinary Heal I'm tired of the heal command being used as frequently as it is, in combat. From being as easy to accomplish as it is, it has lost meaning. It's -supposed- to be the use of first aid, such as pressing on arteries and applying bandages and the like. Quinn, could you pretty please make it such that heal requires two free hands? :) Celeste, you're working on the Mage-ly healing. Could you pretty please make that require at least one free hand? yours truly, #80 -------------------------- Message 94 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jun 19 10:53:50 1995 CDT From: Celeste (#5515) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Heal I love that Idea and I will, for sure, do that. Also I was contemplating taking "mobility" out of the mend/heal command for the mages, as it is unlikely that a third circle mage would be able to concentrate enough to render para/quadrapligic people healthy once again. I believe I shall leave it to the other stats and in order to "heal" mobility, I will make it one of the magefoods. Any more Ideas? L. Celeste -------------------------- Message 95 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jun 23 00:18:43 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Perhaps when you look at someone, and they have a looked-at message, it should use perception in some way to determine if any certain player notices it or not. Is this implimented, and if it isn't, would it add too much sludge to be done? -------------------------- Message 96 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jun 24 04:03:40 1995 CDT From: Selina (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Looked-at and Perception Hmm, this is a fine point... I'll try explain why it was done the way it was. Most MUDs have "look" and "examine". "Look" conveys a silent message of "I find you interesting." "Examine" doesn't alert the Look-ee, but, on a MOO, it can also "spam" you with a long list of things you didn't care to know, such as verbs you cannot use. Because of this, we opted to -not- teach new players "Examine". Having Perception randomly interfere with your knowledge of how other players are attempting to interact socially with you is Realistic but doesn't add any pleasure to the game. Either the other player would look at you and you'd miss out on this important social cue, or we would have to give you a message that said something like, "Your character doesn't realize it, but Joe over there just looked at 'em." Perception is slated to be useful in a Test (see game Test ). In my personal opinion, character abilities like Perception are limited the way a statistic like Intelligence is limited. There already is real Perception and real Intelligence. No amount of numbers will make a player more perceptive or intelligent than they are. Thus, the statistics can only make the character act more oblivious or stupid than their player. What we -really- need is some translation from the numbers to what they mean in English. Is a 55 Strength good? bad? What kind of Perception would a fellow with bionically enhanced hearing have? y.t., #80 -------------------------- Message 97 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jul 1 04:21:07 1995 CDT From: Kailyn (#5346) To: *ideas (#504) It would be nice if we could modify the various scanning and checking messages for bioscanners, and the healing for first aid kits, if I remember right that we can't -------------------------- Message 98 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jul 1 04:45:40 1995 CDT From: Kailyn (#5346) To: *ideas (#504) Modifying dodge to dod*ge or even do would make it a bit simpler I think -------------------------- Message 99 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jul 3 08:20:59 1995 CDT From: Fisuer (#2800) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: whaa? points? Umm.. it seems there's a great deal of confusion with points.. character points, enhancement points, advantage points, advancement points.. I feel someone might need to write up a summary of each of these, and how they are to be used..etc. Just my AUST$0.05 cents [we ain't got 2 anymore.] --- Fizzy. -------------------------- Message 100 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jul 8 15:31:36 1995 CDT From: Guru (#2509) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Newspaper It would be nice if the newspaper could be updated on a more frequent basis. This would allow the citizens to keep up with the latest plots and events (IC stuff only). -Guru -------------------------- Message 101 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jul 13 23:07:51 1995 CDT From: Kailyn (#5346) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: How about sit/lie verbs on tents, and customizable messages for them How about sit/lie verbs on tents, and customizable messages for them -------------------------- Message 102 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 4 15:40:50 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Idea about paging... I was active on another system which rpg-ed, and to eliminate the problem of paging being abused, they linked the page system to an object which could be purchased, but to also eliminate OOC and IC conversations being intermixed, they used channels, similar to the [shout] channels found on some MOO's, each type of group or concept had its own channel, and some of these were private, examples are:: The public channel was ( .pub ) "...message...." A channel for dragonriders could be ( .drag ) "......message......" A channel for crystalhunters could be ( .CH ) "......message......" A channel for the mages could be ( .m1 ) ( .m2 ) ( .m3 ) *** These could be for the 3 circles of magic *** There could also be a channel for help, such as ( .help ) "..message..." *** this channel could be added to well known player, and not nessasrily to only wizrds, so that people might get problems solved even when a wiz. isn't online or hiding*** These channels could have passwords so that the leader of a certain group, such as (dragonriders) could add that person to the channel when they become a member, but also be programmed with the standard channels like (.pub) -------------------------- Message 103 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 4 16:52:15 1995 CDT From: Fisuer (#2800) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: channels.. Well Collosus, don't suppose you noticed the channels using a comm, hey? =) -- Fizzy. -------------------------- Message 104 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 4 18:51:52 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: "New items" I have been told that the wearable clothing does play a role in assigning damage, so why not make some simple items like helmets or jackets, etc. which deflect more damage than the normal wearable clothing. Flak jackets, or motercycle helmets, any such things which are used for protection in the modern world could be found in the ruins of this realm, which would also make the people of the wastelands look more IC, because thier attire would be more motley in appearance, as though they had scavanged them from different places. -------------------------- Message 105 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 4 22:55:54 1995 CDT From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Armor/Clothing. Armor _does_ exist, it is simply quite rare, to date. There are players that have bits of it out there and the leather chaps and other things obtainable within Dojo Armoury do aid your protection more than simple clothing (clothing does protect you, just not too well). We do not have a solid system for propogation of armor quite yet, but a few different ideas are in circulation, so it is likely that it will become more widely available eventually. -Stalinger -------------------------- Message 106 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 7 13:22:12 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: rarity I like the idea of items being scarce. Shotguns are very hard to come by, and SHELLS are even more difficult to find. If you run out, then you're stuck with nothing more than a rare club. If we had helmets and such, I'd rather they be in an old military base or something, deep in the Wasteland, accessible only by walking. I also gotta get rid of `home`, or restrict it to the same zone, so those distances MEAN something. -Quinn -------------------------- Message 107 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 9 15:07:17 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: home I need some input on the `home` command. No doubt it has to go, at least in its current form, but I don't want to have people stranded out in the middle of nowhere. I'm considering a HOMING PLATFORM in the R/T Round Room. That way, people would have a way home, but a restricted way. There's also the problem of people disconnecting to avoid death, because we automatically teleport them home. I was thinking that, instead of the teleport, a "flee" is queued. The player will still be sent home, but after a longer period of time--Perhaps 15 minutes? Comments would be appreciated. Sorry this isn't a very well thought-out letter. My brain, she be fried this noon. -------------------------- Message 108 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 9 17:45:32 1995 CDT From: Nothing (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Avoiding Death I completely agree with the need to elimante the (home) command for those exploring the wastelands, but also would like to point out the during a player vs. player battle or a player vs. monster battle that the (home) command will not work, you must be in a situation where nobody has attacks Qued against you to go (home), the problem as I see it is, loud mouths and bullies are picking fights, and if the fight goes badly, they simply disconnect, eliminating the need to go home, because the system is setup so that a player may not attack another player who is asleepp, they just hit ( ^] ) so that they iinstantly go to sleep, and thus avoid death, One such person has done this to me twice now, each time insulting me and openly attacking me without provocation, and in areas not meant for battle i.e. the evaluation chamber room... So somhow it should either be reset so that the system recognizes player vs. player fights, and basically allows the coward to be completely vulnerable and die, or wizards should take reports of such problems and discipline the character responsible for the attacks, being a cowardly bully is no way to play the game, and loging off to avoid being punished for running your mouth off and then losing is no way to keep people from griping about the troublemakers... -------------------------- Message 109 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 10 10:56:11 1995 CDT From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Homing and Combat I do think it very important that we formulate some kind of coded way to allow people to be killed after logging out, if they are involved in combat. However, one concern I have with this is that I wouldn't be suprised if someone would come across another person's body 14 mins after logout and just slaughter them. This could or could not be a problem, since if players were warned, they would probably find safer places to sleep or simply go home before they log out. -Stalinger -------------------------- Message 110 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 11 12:17:54 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: New Location (ZOO) I have thought of a new location, a zoo in which recomb animals roam free after breaking away from thier cages, I also have a few particular rooms in mind the the location, I would apppreciate any feedback on your thoughts about an abandoned zoo filled with recomb animals, please send your replies to me directly... thank you. -------------------------- Message 111 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Aug 11 18:50:43 1995 CDT From: Moonheart (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: emptying containers How about fixing it so you can empty a container into another container ..or into a room ? Mnht -------------------------- Message 112 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Aug 12 18:22:08 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Help\Game Improvemnts I have searched among the citizens of the MOO, and have found one commanality amongst the citizens, and that is that nobody knows how to interpret the stats reciced from the evaluation chamber, or exactly much many crystals are needed to garuntee boosts in stats. An example could be: Assume a person had a medic of 24 (24) +87 one person thinks the second column is important, yet another person thinks the third column is important, but they both agree that they have only theories and not facts, and that both really do not now how to understand the columns even if they knew which was the important one to watch. What does +87 mean anyway??? Is it 87% chance.. or 87 points out of a scale of a thousand, you tell me...nobody seems to know. Secondly, I have also heard many thoeries about boosting stats by eating crystals, some say eat 100 all at one time and you will boost, some say eating crystals at different times that total a 1000 will also do it, still others believe that the boost is based on eating 10X your highest stat in crystals. Well, I have personally eaten 1068 crystals all at one tme, which is higher than the 10X my highest stat, and did not boost, so I beliieve some clarity would helpp the entire moo... I believe a section under either game or help called (help stat meaning) or (help stat boost) or some similar names would help greatly... -------------------------- Message 113 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Aug 12 18:28:07 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) There is an explination on one of the lists about the stats. There is one %100 sure way to boost. Suffice it to say, that if you eat a whole lot of them you have a chance. There is a element of mystery to everything here. -------------------------- Message 114 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Aug 14 12:05:34 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: New equipment I have thought about some of the character plots going on, and how some people are very touchy about being scanned, and was thinking of a new piece of equipment for such players: A wearable image projector ( or some similar name) Example:: The player would wear the item under his or her clothing, and since you cannot audit thier items it would thus be invisible to comman PC's, it could be programable to send back false bioscanner readings for (stats), but would otherwise give out true reading for mobility and injury, so that another player would not know he or she is attempting to mess with a strong player, or it could make a weak player look tougher, similar to chamleonic coloring amongst animals to make predators leave them alone without a fight, by being able to program the device a player may appear to be strong or weak as they chose. This sort of technology would be capable in a time period similar to the discovery of bionics. (i.e.) similar to a modern pacemaker. Please send any feedback to me personally, so as not to spam up the group..*Thank You* -------------------------- Message 115 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 16 20:23:45 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Need some way to throw unconscious/asleep creatures at other creatures, instead of just dropping them. -------------------------- Message 117 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Aug 19 02:13:59 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Registries OOC items for the OOC lounge; player registers their character to be a member of the class? Rosters... stopgap measure until Advantages are a coded part of character generation. -------------------------- Message 118 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Aug 20 18:15:28 1995 CDT From: Dylan (#1142) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Uhm, just one of my thoughts. . . heh. I am not entirely certain of the intentions of the mfg. of the new undersea and air areas, but . . . If they are to have assailaints in them, what about moray's in the oceans, and something like aire-borne jellyfish in the air. . Like I said, just one of my thoughts. . . -------------------------- Message 119 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Aug 23 01:18:30 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Generic Carried Pet Quinn, could you make a carryable pet? I'd re-parent the Generic Cat and Generic Hawk and Generic Thratch to it. It would have .getpet_msg, .ogetpet_msg, .droppet_msg, .odroppet_msg. It could only be picked up by its @creator and "shapers". RH -------------------------- Message 120 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 24 13:58:25 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Languages I was pondering the possible implementation of languages using character points and the 'gibber' function. My thoughts were thus: Characters obtain languages by buying them with points at levels, like normal skills. Characters who both have the same language can converse with each other and hear normally. For anyone in the room byut er, but, not with that language as a skill, what those people say comes out garbled via the 'gibber' function. You can also have language levels..someone with lvl 1 spanish will perhaps understand %60 of all spanish words (ie %40 are coded wit the gibber) while at lvl 2 it jumps to %80 of all words, etc. For example, myself and another character have lvl 1 Italian. I type in words in english, and that person gets them as english, but @ic we are both conversing in italian. A third person who is listening in only hears noise, since he doesn't have any italian skill. Characters with multiple language skills could switch from one to another while speaking, but will always decode any understood languages (you can't just listen for german; you will understand all languages you have learned). I'd be tempted to recommend against a 'common' language since that would greatly reduce the fun.....however, npcs and critters that only speak foreign languages or bastard tongues created by @ic circumstance would be interesting to interact with. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this subject. -------------------------- Message 121 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Aug 26 20:16:53 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about adding a thingy to request the blackhawk chopper? Most of the time it sits at the wasteland gates because nobody wants to bother to go get it, and so nobody can get to the gates. -------------------------- Message 122 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Aug 27 02:24:27 1995 CDT From: Corinthian (#708) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: chopper I think we just ought to have a lot of choppers. Instead of the exits on the roof. At the very least, one should not be able to flee combat by hailing a taxi. -------------------------- Message 123 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Aug 27 02:26:44 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) By replacing the exits with choppers like the shuttles to/from toosay, it wouldn't require any more objects that are currently used, and wouldn't be all that difficult. All the code has already been written. -------------------------- Message 124 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Aug 31 19:46:06 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about being able to throw things into containers? Perhaps adexterity roll for it. -------------------------- Message 125 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 3 14:55:14 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Annoyance This is a minor gripe about the recent switch on the scanners to needing at least one free hand to operate them. I can understand the necessity of this, but @icly it makes things rather unwieldy. Case in point: Until recently I had two objects that where basically scanners, but that I had renamed for other purposes; a liquid display cell on my wrist, and a gem on my helm. Now neither of these are usable in the @ic fashion in which I designed them. They had been created for use with merely a sweep of my arm or head, but now they've got to go. I recommend that perhaps the scanners should be fixed so they cannot be renamed/described to anything else. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 126 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 3 20:41:43 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about automaticly putting an infront of OOC users speech when sent to IC users, and the same to speech send to OOC users. Then make OOC speech not passed through exits, unless they were in the OOC zone, or something. -------------------------- Message 127 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 11 17:16:08 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) / tag flipflopping -------------------------- Message 128 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 11 17:20:47 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: / flipflopping This is obviously a nice idea; I can't tell *how* good because I can't tell how much work it makes the server do. It was considered two years ago, and tossed out because it means making every message go through a special recipient check, and, at the time, we didn't want that "overhead". -------------------------- Message 129 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 11 17:40:40 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Flexibility of Scanner description Elendil, I'm willing to "grandfather clause" your specific scanner, and make a "hacked" scanner for you that waives the handed requirement. You designed it, and put work into it, before this change was made, and you've brought up a reasonable protest, and your scanner, as it is, is *interesting*. However, ICly scanners normally come from the R/T Replicator. This is the default. If a player can get away with clever redesign to go with a somewhat different story for the origin of their items, then we're glad; it adds color at a level of detail that the wizards couldn't possibly have the time to create and gives players something fun to do. However, we're going to be extremely reluctant to let an object's virtual description modify its functionality. If I create a piece of clothing and call it "Sword and Bullet-proof Armor", this doesn't obligate the Wizzes to go in and modify that object's armor rating. So-- we're not going to undo the change that was made to make Scanners require hands. your ever-lovin' wiztress, RH -------------------------- Message 130 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 11 20:05:30 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ANATOMY OF AN ANOMALY Quinn has currently shut off the hand requirement for scanners. Nevertheless, I'm going to give y'all a glimpse of what it would take to make Elendil a different scanner. First there's the question of IC explanation. We generally insist that most technology (replicators, products from replicators, medical education, etc.) is of terrestrial origin, comes from either Dakirion, or Kilmor, or ShadowFax, or the traditions of the Submariners, , or from the ruins out in the Wasteland. This puts a cap on just how strange or advanced the technology gets, makes sure it's appropriate to its source (see game medical). I peek at Elendil's .plan and .description, discover he's a Submariner. Thus, his helmet was made, long ago, by some of the finest Submariner craftsmen, now conveniently deceased and having taken their knowledge with them. Next there's the question of whether this can be done at all. If the parent object (Quinn's Generic Bioscanner) does not have a parameter set that permits me, as a wiz, to make a kid, then I can't @create one- there's quite a few things like this, that the wizzes cannot spawn, including Crystals. I find the dbref #, and discover that, in this case, I can @spawn a bioscanner. Next I need to check the parent scanner's @verbs. Every MOO object has four permissions (see help chmod ) --and so do all its verbs. I have a kid but might not be able to @list the parent verbs. I discover that the scanner has 9 verbs programmed on it, and they are all @list-able. After going through each one, I find the logic fork of checking whether or not the item is held is under the verb bioscanner:scan . The original verb includes a description of how the player is "sweeping" the scanner about. This won't be appropriate to Elendil's helmet/wrist version. I screen-capture the original verb, and begin crafting an alternate one. This requires me to "Code" instead of just "Implement". (To Implement is to use the @ is "" to customize an object. To Code is to use @verb and @edit : and ;.) A wiz can use either @edit : or @prog :. Wizards, you should know the difference between these. :) I edit this script offline, using a PC and DOS and Edit (a very tiny simple text file editor). The new verb code is uploaded as an ASCII upload. If you can't do offline editting and ASCII uploads and screen captures, or work in multiple "windows" and multitask, consider your ability to Implement or Code severely crippled. I discover that the scan-all function is under a different verb, one that I cannot modify because of verb permissions. I give up on changing this message, even though it might have been a nice touch. I put a spurious verb on to augment it, however (using `pass(@args)'). There's a virtual implication that he's wearing it. It's worn on head and wrist. In MOO we don't have "multiple parentage". That means that if an item is a combination of two things, we might have to entirely duplicate code from one of them. In this case, I'm going to decided that a) no, this scanner won't require being "worn", because the Clothing code is enormous and I don't want to take up dbspace with that redundancy, and b) I'm only going to make it one item, although I could have made it one item (a piece of clothing) and another (the wrist display that's actually a kid of the Scanner parent). Would this really add that much enjoyment to the game, especially considering only one person at a time will use this unique item? no- so the Scanner doesn't get to be clothing, or take up 2 objects of Quota. Fortunately, there -is- a .look_person property. This is a message appended to your description if the item is in your inventory. I give the helm a look_person message: -- %N is wearing a beautifully crafted helmet of black enamel inlaid with tiny intricate designs in mother-of-pearl. Tiny gems, like black glistening eyes of sea creatures, are inset at various points. After all this, I discover that my hack to permit the use of the helm without hands, also permits use of the item when it is not in inventory. Unvirtual? yes, but trivial enough for me to let it slide. So the helm is sent to Elendil, and mysteriously appears in his inventory the same day. --RH ### `Until you taste it, you really don't know what's inside.. And then, of course, it's too late!' --Merlin, in Excalibre ### -------------------------- Message 131 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 15 14:14:57 1995 CDT From: Fisuer (#2800) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Bioscanners.. Hmm.. I remember the days when we had 'datapads'.. and since they were simply 'pads' I had both of my datapads fit along the wrist of each of my characters. But then someone altered them, unfortunately for me, and they are now called bioscanners and don't produce anything near the information a datapad produced. If Elendil can have a bioscanner such as this, surely I can too since I had them custom described and .look_player_msg setted appropiately LONG ago. How many others have this kind of thing....? --- Fizzy. -------------------------- Message 132 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 15 16:17:18 1995 CDT From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Fizzy Thank the stars above we got rid of all the information those datapad's gave off. -------------------------- Message 133 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Sep 15 16:45:44 1995 CDT From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: datapads & scanners, and all of the like. Part of this MOO is progress. We are not a finished work, nor will things consantly stay the same. I support the change of bioscanners to require hands to use, since it is generally rediculous for one to just automate itself when you are holding weapons in both hands. We are also not in the business of making modified objects at simple request for players. RH did grant Elendil such an object, but you would have to speak to her for motivation and we will not simply hand such things out at random, as a general policy. In any case, I believe this to be a moot point as the requirement is currently disabled (I believe - I'll check on that). -Stal -------------------------- Message 134 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 17 06:17:56 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: "Surely I can too?" The spammy post about how the hacked scanner was made, was a demonstration of why we *can't* fulfill requests of this sort. For most "rules" on Ghost you can find one exception. This limited flexibility means that we don't treat an exception as grounds for further exceptions. Sorry, no. -RH -------------------------- Message 135 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 17 16:44:11 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *Gamemasters (#2560) and *ideas (#504) Subject: soul-bonding benefits I have posted previously to *ideas without much feedback on the idea, so I am now going to re-run the idea up the flagpole..etc. Anyway, my idea is that people who are soul-bonded are supposed to share a single soul..etc. Well, I think editing the (+hide location) option, so that soul-bonded people can see each others location even if they are hidden. Or make a verb that can be copied onto the players which allows them to see each other, over riding the the (+hide location) option. example: my mate, and soul-bonded love is Clara Bow and she is always paging me to ask (Where are you at right now...etc.) just a thought all, let me know what you think of it... -------------------------- Message 136 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 17 20:46:44 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *Gamemasters (#2560) and *ideas (#504) Subject: Soul-bonding who hacks Grrrrr. Evil @qsend... The who and where commands are OOC-centric systems, and IC rituals probably shouldn't have anything to do with them. If you did want to be able to have your location hidden, but viewable by certain other people, perhaps another '@trust' option would be more appropriate. -------------------------- Message 137 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Sep 17 23:47:07 1995 CDT From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Soul-bonding vs @hide opt. "Have to agree with Mulder on this one..there are just tooo many problems with keeping IC and OOC seperate. The Who, Where's are ooc..and @trust opt could work.. -------------------------- Message 138 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 25 04:20:19 1995 CDT From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @tweak Could somebody please give us the following command? It makes scrubbing up typo's easier: @tweak [.property] /// --permits editting without forcing you into the editor for minor fixes; without a .property, assumes .description. Could be `smart' and check for both <.property> and <.property_msg>; if it only finds .property_msg then it assumes that's what you meant, and fixes it. if it finds both, it returns an error "Did you mean <.property> or <.property>_msg?" --RH -------------------------- Message 139 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Sep 25 11:25:59 1995 CDT From: Janus (#3597) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: local editing Does someone use the local editing with success? if yes how? TIA -------------------------- Message 140 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Sep 26 23:49:33 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about OOC conversation (speech by ooc users, or with the OOC command) optionally not being sent through exits. That would cut down on some of the cross-chatter, and still allow newbies to be counseled while next to an RP. -------------------------- Message 141 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Sep 30 18:59:15 1995 CDT From: Moonheart (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Daggers dodge yro dodge yro Is it possible to make daggers throwable and have them do dammage ? that way we coulid work on our ranged without having to find a gun ... -------------------------- Message 142 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Sep 30 22:11:17 1995 CDT From: Balth (#3746) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ooc social verb add-on I was elsemoo the other day during the crash, and I happened upon a moo with something progged into its' social verbs. When you typed afk, it came up: Balth will be away from his keyboard. This also worked for brb (Be right back). Could we implement these as OOC verbs? I would do this myself, but I know not about fo's or entire-moo implementation of verbs. Balth -------------------------- Message 143 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 1 11:48:18 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: new newsgroup After chatting with a few people, I had the thought of starting a new OOC newsgroup readable by the wizards, and only the top 10 players in the following catagories (unarmed, armed, medic, bladed, and blunt. ) This newgroup would be only a compiled list of the highest ten players in each catagory, it would not show the exact numbers, but once a week I would look over the best player stats and rank them from 1) - 10) in each of the catagories. I know alot of people are curious if they are the best, and how they rank againt others. It would only have the persons name and thier rank in the top ten, nothing more. I would like any feedback on this idea to be sent directly to me, and if I get good results, Iwill ask Quinn to act upon it, thank you. This of course would be considered an OOC group, and only readible by the "best". It would encourage alot of practicing to be able to be the best, and part of the elite amongst the realm.... -------------------------- Message 144 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 1 17:24:32 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: post 143 After talking to Stalinger about the group, I have decided that the group will be a public group, so that all those hard working people will get the credit they deserve, this group will only be writable by the GMs. I hope everyone will read this new group, if it becomes available... thanks Stalinger for all your help. :) -------------------------- Message 145 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 1 20:54:10 1995 CDT From: Collosus (#4496) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: top10 apendix After listening to the feedback, it looks like there will be no new newsgroup, so please disregard the previous posts on the subject... -------------------------- Message 146 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 9 20:10:03 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about 'ht all' spitting out the quick synopsis of everybody in the room, for those of us who don't like bioscanners. Easier than typing ht person1, ht person2, ht person3... -------------------------- Message 147 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Oct 11 13:38:41 1995 CDT From: Ytschen (#3968) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: list of 'beings' in room The syntax, 'who' used to list all beings in the room and thier condition. . . I like the new format, veery sexy. but it now only lists the PC's in the room. Is that the way it was intended? I guess this is more of a question than an idea. But the idea part is keep the new format. and add the other 'beings' back in. Just a thot. -------------------------- Message 148 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 13 10:15:16 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: Ytschen (#3968) and *ideas (#504) Subject: who Changed lowercase 'who' output. Y'all tell me what you think. -------------------------- Message 149 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 13 12:02:35 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about adding 'Injured' to the local 'who'? -------------------------- Message 150 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Oct 14 00:25:34 1995 CDT From: ShadowFox (#2753) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Temporary Room Pose What about a verb that sets your @look_place message until you exit the room. That way, you could sit on peoples lap, sit on the 'side' of the hot tub without getting in it, and wouldn't have to worry about it after you walked out. -------------------------- Message 151 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 15 12:26:01 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: who It *does* show injury and all the other damage monitors if they are over 100. -------------------------- Message 152 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 16 00:54:43 1995 CDT From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Unconciousness It occurs to me that there isn't an awful lot to do while unconcious. Would it be possible to work the 'game' command so that it can be used whilest unconcious. It would be nice to be able to read up on the background information. (I've read it all once, but I'm always forgetting stuff.) Also, I noticed that trying to send mail while unconcious is not a very good idea. I don't know if anything can be done about it, but it would at least be nice to be able to get out of the mail editor while unconcious, even if sending mail is still impossible. -------------------------- Message 153 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 16 02:09:49 1995 CDT From: Moonheart (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mail while unconcious. @qsend seems to work fine while your out since it never takes you into the editor ... Mnht -------------------------- Message 154 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 20 08:27:55 1995 CDT From: Moonheart (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Dumpable containers... would still like to see this ... Mnht -------------------------- Message 155 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 20 08:39:57 1995 CDT From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: unconscious commands Thanks for pointing out those problems with unconsciousness, Tybon. Anyone have suggestions for what commands *should* be allowed while knocked out? I added the alias `@game` to `game`, as `@help` is to `help`, so you can use them during unconsciousness. Right now the main stipulation is that the command has an 'at' (@) in front of it. -------------------------- Message 156 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 20 11:54:04 1995 CDT From: Yseult (#4778) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Something to add while one is unconcious.... I'm wondering, is there any way for the dragonriders to control their dragons while unconcious? I so far have not found a way to. If there is, please, please tell me. =) If not, there's an idea of something to be added. Even though I may be knocked out, my dragon is not and would still be active and *extremely* upset. Thanks, Yseult, Lan's rider -------------------------- Message 157 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 20 11:57:26 1995 CDT From: Balth (#3746) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Puppet Unconsciousness I must concurr with Yseult. I have talked with others about puppets being controlled while the person who owns them is knocked out, and I have gotten negative feedback. Logic tells me, however, that especially in what Yseult is describing, the puppet would not just stop existing once its owner is knocked unconscious. Just my 2 sense (!) Balth -------------------------- Message 158 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Oct 20 14:25:57 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: unconciousness I had always been under the impression that dragons and their riders were soul-bonded. I'm not exactly sure of the directives this follows in @ic mode, but I had assumed that if one half of (again, my impression along this line) of a mutually bonded pair was suddenly knocked unconcious, the effects on the other half of the bonded pair would be random at best. Desire to defend the other, overwhelming fear, total paralysis, a sharing of the mental incapacitation of the other; all these and more could come into play. The other half of the pair could be so stunned by the sudden breakdown of mind-to-mind communication that perhaps it *would* just stand there unless something acted specifically upon it. Unconciousness is merely a step away from death, and therefore should affect the other half of the pair with symptoms one step from if the rider (or dragon) had been killed. I think that if control is allowed to the other half of the pair, the *most* rational thing possible would be an overwhelming urge to charge into the prescence of the fallen character and kill EVERYONE. At this point the dragon would not be able to differentiate between friend and foe, and would merely turn into a whirlwind of revenging anger. By the same token, I think having the dragon just sit there stupified is also perfectly acceptable. This changes, of course, for non-soulbonded creatures. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 159 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Oct 21 18:01:53 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) On the new uppercase who, could we shorten gender to one letter, and status to two or three? It does rather harshly cut into the space for the tag, and isn't as visually appealing as the old one was. Just my two crystals... -------------------------- Message 160 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 22 15:08:34 1995 CDT From: Yzryel (#5314) To: *DragonRiders (#5915) and *ideas (#504) Subject: RE: 158 on *Ideas Hello, a while ago I read Elendil's post regarding what the actions of dragons would be while its rider was unconcscious. Elendil says, "I think that if control is allowed to the other half of the pair, the *most* rational thing possible would be an overwhelming uge to charge into the prescence of the fallen character and kill EVERYONE. At this point the dragon would not be able to differentiate between friend and foe, and would merely turn into a whirlwind of revenging anger. By the same token, I think that having just sit there just stupefied is also perfectly acceptable." Well, the above are in fact rational actions, but really it depends on the dragons themselves. Although a rider's and dragon's 'soul-bond' is definitely a lot stronger than any other soul-bonds, strong enough for a rider or dragon to kill themselves if one of the pair died, an unconscious rider could really have no affect on their dragon's actions. The main reasoning for this is that the dragons here are individuals and thier reactions would entirely depend on the dragon's personality. In 'Game Dragon Colors' the first note clarifies this> OOC NOTE: Dragons are individuals and need not conform 100% to these personality archetypes. They are merely a guide to help players charaterize their dragons. A dragon is much more that a retainer or pet, it's a second character. I'd like to point out two things in that note: 'individual' and 'second character'. This means that a dragon is basically a being that can act on its own free will. The only reason for a rider or dragon wanting to kill themselves or even dying instantly is because they would lose the will to live as soon as they lost the one thing in the world they loved and cherished above all else. Ok, I know that I threw out more than my two crystals worth, but I just had to say what I had to say. Clear skies! Yzryel, rider of Elwynd and Morlith SkyPatrol/Watch Coordinator -------------------------- Message 161 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 22 15:25:31 1995 CDT From: Yzryel (#5314) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ok... .. I wrote that big ass post and forgot to add in the other reason for me writing it. Which is that while unconscious, Dragonriders should be able to puppet their dragons. So please add the puppet commands to the list of commands usable while unconscious. Oh, and another thing, for the new 'WHO' I think the format is good as it is as I write this, but I think instead of listing people in the order of how long they've been connected, I like the old way better which put players in the order of how idle they are. Just my HO. Yzryel, Elwynd's rider blah, blah, blah... -------------------------- Message 162 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Oct 22 21:55:56 1995 CDT From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Dragons In response to Elendils letter and to add to Yz's.. First, Dragons are sentient beings. This means they are intelligent and rational, they are more intelligent and far more rational than us mere humans. As Yz said they are Not puppets or 'pets'. They have their own motives and thoughts. Players who take on being DR's are taking on the added responsibility for playing a second char, often one of a differing personality. This second char will not be moved by the same motivations as it's human counterpart. If a rider is knocked unconcious, the dragon is apt to pick up the rider and protect it. A dragon will not attack a room where it's rider was harmed. Only if the rider was attacked first by a human might the dragon attack that human. A dragon would very possibly pick up another rider of another dragon also if that rider was hurt. I doubt it would bother much with non riders. Remember dragons are sentient. Less governed by emotions such as humans are. By the way, You will never see a dragon out on the ghost wheel killing and collecting crystals. Second, Death of rider ... The dragon does not die if a rider dies and goes to the midrealm. It will chose to go with its' rider to the midrealm, returning with the rider. Should a rider die the 'real death', then a dragon will die, tho probably not before it goes insane, wreaks havok and destroys, or falls into melancholia. But it will die. Dragons die the 'real death' for they do not chose to return to this realm. I hope this helps clarify. Clear skies and happy flights! Yjezra, rider of Lyrzrath, DragonMistress of Mt. Morlith Aeyrie -------------------------- Message 163 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 23 19:04:51 1995 CDT From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) How about having the look_place message not shown if the object is placed on something? -------------------------- Message 164 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 23 19:32:44 1995 CDT From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Fair enough. Alrighty then, I'll take my joyous flamage with pride. Will someone then please give a tad more explict definition of 'soul-bonded'? I had (wrongly) assumed that it implied some sort of mutually beneficial symbiotic merging, perhaps even the creation of a Greater dragon/person soul that feeds both and allows for mind-to-mind communication. It was this misconception that allowed me to think that the death of one member of the pair (and the subsequent shredding of the soul-bond) would pull the life from the other in perhaps a most spectacular display of convulsions and shrieks. Its seems, however, that soul-bonded means they're merely good friends, and if one kicks off the other will, without a constant supply of Prozac, pine away. Are there any non-dragon riders out there with other takes on this situation? --Elendil p.s. Does this mean that SoulMechs are merely 'good friends' with their machines? -------------------------- Message 165 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Oct 23 19:53:46 1995 CDT From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Dragons and soulbonds First of all. A dragon cannot just follow its rider to the mid-realm. At the very most, a first circle magus skilled in necromancy could make a short journey to the mid-realm. And even then, that is not without it risks. And from what I know about soul-bonding it is not something that just lets two creatures have telepathy. The two creatures are joined via the soul. Each loses a bit of their own to take a bit of the other persons. And when a rider dies the dragon -does- feel the effects. It would gain insanity and go into a depression or perhaps a rage for example. The death of either link causes a temporary severing of the soul-bond. The pain felt by one at the time of death is felt by the other at the time of death. To not have the dragon feel any effects from its rider dying is rather ludicrous. And as for dragons being intelligent, that decision lies on the part of the the rider (player), some dragons may be no more intelligent then a human baby. I am sure this may of caused more questions then it has solved but that is my view on soul-bonding. It is not a ceremony to be taken lightly. -------------------------- Message 166 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Oct 25 21:56:13 1995 CDT From: Clara_Bow (#2376) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: About the new who When in the new user area where all players who do not have designated homes, one gets spammed by typing who. I think it would be a good idea to protecte these young idiots (including myself) from themselves by making the who restricted to just those people in the room who are actually logged in if possible. Also, I've noticed that the who command gives idle times to players in a room who are disconnected. Thanks. -LL. -------------------------- Message 167 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 4 20:09:13 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Furniture Out of idle curiosity, is there any way to install some sort of 'generic furniture' (i.e., generic sitable/lyable/setable object) on the main replicator...or is there some other way already existant in which such an item might by acquired...would help with interior decorating...:) Just a thought...:) --Tybon -------------------------- Message 168 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 4 21:15:02 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: speaking of home furnishings... It somewhat disturbs me that the 'furniture' inside my tent is visible to people outside...since structurally, tents seem to be some sort of modified container...is there any way of making them 'opaque'? Just-a-curious... --Tybon :) -------------------------- Message 169 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Nov 4 22:05:47 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Furniture The main reason we don't have user accessable furiture, is we don't want players walking around and dropping beds whenever they want a seat. Furniture is also very open to abuse. The well in ghostwheel could very easy start happening everwhere. To create true furniture requires one description, one property, and six messages, at the least. That's alot of work, and it's very easy to do it 'wrong'. Tents contents are visible from the outside because the way the look_self and tell_contents verbs are structured. I just rewrote it on my ground effect vehicles, and it was no small task. Something's probably wrong somewhere, but tracking it down would be a problem without true wiz perms. In reality, tents are't modified containers, they're modified rooms, and much of the general room code looks very odd when used in tents, but that's the way life goes. Tents are overused, hotel rooms aren't prevelant enough, but both of these should change in the near future. Mulder -------------------------- Message 170 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 5 15:02:24 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Tents... Allo there....I've never posted before, so I apologize in advance for any lack of clarity. My idea: tents in general. They are EVERYWHERE...one can't walk into the Ghostwheel without seeing about 30 of them clustered around the peripheries of the room, or stroll through the Shizuka Woodlands without tripping over two or three every few steps. I have an idea to solve this problem... Okay...recently rooms were sized so that exceptionally large creatures (ie, dragons) could not fit into rooms that were not big enough for their large forms. How about doing the same as far as drop space for tents? Perhaps allowing certain areas to have low drop allowances...like saying that 6 tents could be dropped here, and the seventh person to attempt it would be refused...could cut down on the huge amount of tents cluttering up the countryside. This could also help route people into "designated camping areas" where larger amounts of tents would be allowed. Thanks for listening to my two crystals worth. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 171 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Nov 5 15:04:14 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: an afterthought. Perhaps there could also be rooms where people could not pitch tents at all--some places where I find them are simply not logical. Thanks again... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 172 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 6 18:39:02 1995 CST From: Ybld (#7992) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ic/ooc Is there any way to set things up so that you can tell if someone is ic or ooc when they enter a room...? It would be nice not to have to type 'who' each time someone enters... -------------------------- Message 173 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 6 18:41:50 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: IC/OOC notifications, etc... If we do anything, please, please make it an @option. This whole IC/OOC thing is spammy enough already. -------------------------- Message 174 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 6 22:33:17 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: musing the possibilities... Just some thoughts on Mulders arguements... I can see his point on abusing furniture...however couldn't furniture be restricted in where it can be placed... If the 'generic furniture' were programmed so that it could only be dropped in tents/hotel rooms...or...only be dropped in a room keyed to the same player (i.e. only the owner's tent/hotel room...this would solve for mulder's main problem... As for the message difficulty...It's been my observation that people either ignore messages altogether...or take the time to get them right..set defaults like everything else and this should be no problem... Furniture isn't really a critical element of the game...I can continue to use the 'generic items' I'm using now...but this lacks realism It's my conception that a tent/hotel room is not just a place where someone logs off...it's their characters home...and it should be possible to treat it as such... As for the 'transparency' of the tents...if this is a programming nightmare to fix I understand...but it would still be cool if it could be fixed...:) Just some thoughts... --Tybon :) -------------------------- Message 175 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 6 23:15:36 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: tents Hmmmm, I thought hotel rooms included a bed, don't they? All the ones I've been in have had beds... Not that I used them, mind you, it's just that... er... nevermind. -------------------------- Message 176 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 7 00:55:43 1995 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: tents/furniture "Okay, how about making sleeping bags at least. This could be replicated and the messages on it aren't as many as a bed..less use of bytes. -------------------------- Message 177 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 7 18:05:25 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: hotel rooms Ok, just to cleasr up some vagueness...would someone please explain in detail what a 'hotel room' is in game terms and how it is different from a 'tent'. I've checked the game info and this distinction isn't really clear. The 'stronghold' is a bit better defined...but clarification on the distinction between all three would help...if there are existing parameters in the game that would solve my questions that's fine...but I haven't been able to find any. Oh by the way...while Yjezra's notion of sleeping bags was good...it help as a solution to what I've been suggesting... --Tybon -------------------------- Message 178 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 7 18:06:55 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: typo in previos message the end of that last sentance should read...it wouldn't help as a solution to what I've been suggesting... -------------------------- Message 179 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 8 14:44:34 1995 CST From: Janus (#3597) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: tents let's try to make a GW Camping :-) WIth BBQ :-) Janus (just kidding, just kidding...) -------------------------- Message 180 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 8 23:31:16 1995 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Talin says, "Ooooo... You should make an OJ monster." -------------------------- Message 181 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 8 23:32:29 1995 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) What's so scarry about a glass of orange juice? -------------------------- Message 182 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 9 19:22:21 1995 CST From: Ashley (#4192) To: *ideas (#504) How about being able to throw things into containers? Maybe based on agility, or sumthing. -------------------------- Message 183 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 9 21:35:24 1995 CST From: Chaos (#5615) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: new threat message would it be possible to increase the number represented in the threat message on standard replicated materials, by putting them on some sort of 'effort' effect. i.e. The more time you spend, on messages, descriptions, etc..increases the #, includeing time with you...on your person? just a thought..my two assasinations..hehe Chaos -------------------------- Message 184 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Nov 20 21:56:07 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @reap Is there a way to create an @reap function here on GW? I am aware that on some other MOOs, after a certain amount of time unused characters or characters that have not been active for a long time are removed from the database. This could be a way to clear up Character names for active people who would like to use them and to get rid of excess "trash" littering the area--like the flocks of tents belonging to people who are never logged on. Thanks for listening...(and I'm sorry if it already exists...) --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 185 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 21 06:22:11 1995 CST From: Fisuer (#2800) To: *geography (#258), *ideas (#504), and *Character-Issues (#5282) Subject: Airways..? I don't suppose there's anyone coding/building flying-only areas, as there is a sea, and a wasteland.. with appropiate critters, time for some flying ones? Flying about, Fizzy. -------------------------- Message 186 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 21 06:33:16 1995 CST From: Jaymez (#9150) To: *ideas (#504), *Character-Issues (#5282), *Chat (#5391), and *Storylines (#5236) Subject: I put what here? Are there any sentient creatures out there, weither human, recomb, or the like who feels they like to be part of a group? I would like to present Kazemui; New beginnings. This is a new religion I have created, and would greatly like other beings to help me with the growth of Kazemui, however, I am still waiting for a citadel, and the details of this new religion are still a new stages. Any input on this, please reply to me, I'd like some priests, female, male or other, and anyone else who'd like to be part of this new step in GhostWheel. Glorious dawnings, and blessings to you all, HighPriest Jaymezukrizet. -------------------------- Message 187 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Nov 23 07:32:03 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Tents Tents Everywhere How about if we give all existing rooms a .tent number that defaults to 3, with the property modifiable by builder? This would be the number of tents dropped, after which the room would refuse to permit a kid of the portable room parent to be dropped there. I say 3, because what limits them is not the "virtual" size of the region, but rather, the description length of the room. As a general rule of thumb, I don't like it when the description of ANYTHING is longer than 12 lines. -------------------------- Message 188 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 28 14:25:06 1995 CST From: Tadewi (#3791) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: A thought for the noble born advantage... I'm suggesting a list of noble families be made, so that those who have taken the advantage know who other families are. It might also become useful for tps, such as creating alliances or conflicts between two or more Houses. Good start up some interesting rping. Just an idear. =) Taddypole -------------------------- Message 189 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 28 14:26:31 1995 CST From: Tadewi (#3791) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: About to shoot her typist... Good = Could -------------------------- Message 190 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 28 16:57:50 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Tad's typist Okay, this isn't really about the typist, but still... The idea of having a noble born list is a good one--perhaps having the nobility of each city, and the "nobility-at-large" so to speak? It seems that a certain amount of renown would go along with this, and that the nobility would, indeed be likely to know -of-, if not actually recognize on site, other nobles. This might be able to solve some problems as far as nobility goes, too--and give people a logical way to interact, and a reason to have the title "lady" or whatever... just my non-sensical two crystals worth...(or maybe three?) -kara- -------------------------- Message 191 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Nov 28 21:55:07 1995 CST From: Red_Fang (#5907) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility! Yeah! Like me, ruler of all and servent to no one.. I am nobile, maybe not spit and polish like some of the weaker classed nobiles, take them french blooded fellers and ladys, oh they can walk and talk the talk, but can they rule as well as Red Fang? I think not. But then again they do their best, and I commend them on it. So the idea of Nobilitys is a good one I think, of course, I should be included. Red -------------------------- Message 192 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 29 17:46:39 1995 CST From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: OOC The posting boards (i.e. *ideas, *rpg, etc....) are OOC, right? -------------------------- Message 193 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 29 18:06:18 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Yes, the message lists are OOC. Also, please don't send messages to multiple lists, that just makes those of us who are subscribed to them all read it so many times. Please be kind, rewind. -------------------------- Message 194 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 29 20:29:43 1995 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: nobility Quick message 'cause I gotta run. Anyway, I had assumed that nobility meant you were from a higher caste of whatever background you were from. As a result, you could mince about expecting to be called 'sir' or 'madam', give yourself slightly better (@icly described equipment, and so on. (No, this isn't sarcastic, I myself took 'nobility'). If you actually *rule* somewhere, I think you'd have to pay alot more point @oocly..perhaps buy 'noble' several more times. -------------------------- Message 195 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Nov 29 22:33:43 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility once more The ideas that we had as far as nobility go were not in the idea of a "ruling class" as ic characters, as much as the caste concept that Elendil was referring to. However, we figured that members of a higher level caste--especially within their own, individual communitites (such as the Krewe of N'Orleans)--would be able to recognize each other as nobility on sight whether or not they were personally acquainted. In a manner of speaking, kinda like well-known people today: you may recognize the mayor of your town, but do you know him all that well as a person? The list idea is more of a way for people with this attribute to be able to recognize each other, and to recognize people (or have a chance at it) who are claiming to be noble who really aren't. I would say that a ruler, such as a king, would have to have a special ability of some sort and very high nobility, yes. A regular noble, however, would most likely be the possessor of some renoun, which was the reason for suggesting the lists. Thanks for listening to my two crystals worth... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 196 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 1 14:46:02 1995 CST From: Delvish (#5888) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility could be bought The concept of nobility in the old often referred to that persons amount of wealth. ie You have to spend points for the advantage but also should expect to collect homage from those you rule. To become a lord or lady one should have to be able not only to rp it but to provide for their people. This would also slice and dice various areas as nobles of various rankings are established to help govern the land. Or more to the point one could also expect to obtain nobility through purchase with crystals, items, and pledges of ultimate allegiance. Just a random thought with all this discussion. Delvish, disgruntled as ever. -------------------------- Message 197 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 1 17:16:04 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: more on nobility How about more that one kind of nobility? There could be nobility as in the sense of the English system, wherein there are the Dukes and Barons and Princesses and Queens who rule over the land and have the wealth, title, rulership, duty etc. over certain people, and then the type of "nobility" as we have it in the United States--powerful families who have definite reputations--the Kennedys for instance. I would suggest that the first type of nobility would cost LOTS and LOTS and LOTS and LOTS more points than the second, and maybe even have to be a feature character or auditioned for, whatever. Thanks for listening... Kara -------------------------- Message 198 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 1 17:21:09 1995 CST From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Thoughts on nobility Personally, anyone can say they are anything they want. That does not mean I will treat him/her/it any differently. -------------------------- Message 199 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 1 19:16:59 1995 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility I'd agree with Kynwal on this, to a point. Nobility is power, in its basest form, essentially. In ancient times the 'noble' families controlled everything. Currently (and in the GW time), the ones with the power are the corporations ... and the one who own the corporations? Anyone who can muster the influence to break in. However, there is a lot of 'old money' in power that way. It is considerably more difficult for an upstart to pull him/her self into the scheme of things that one groomed from birth with all the right friends. Nobility doesn't mean you /have/ to treat anyone any differently. Just use it as an RP device. Red Fang has blatantly started fights with first-circle mages including myself before. Though I'm not sure that is wise, I don't think anyone bears him ill will for it. However, just think about how your character would react to it, as a rule of thumb. Some characters /would/ treat 'nobles' with respect. -Stal -------------------------- Message 200 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 2 04:27:49 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: noble titles If this nobility thing is catching on as much as it seems to be, I have a few ideas on the subject. First, if there is going to be a Nobility advantage, one should gain something from it.. such as a (small) monthly 'income' of crystals or somesuch. But it should be part of a structure, so the broader limits need to be set first. a) Nobility is supported by those under it, which by reflection limits the nobility above... Someone needs to define what the various areas in existence ICly can support in the way of nobles. New Orleans for instance, has what.. 4 or 5 seperate Noble families now? (counting the gypsies) I suggest that the leader of X noble house be a Feature, and given a certain noble rank. The height of this rank would determin how many other nobles may be under them in their family, of various lower ranks. An Eorl might have under them 2 Knights, or somesuch. The ruler of such family would be the one responsible for approving or denying someone a noble position in their House. Then set a broad policy that if not placed in one of the major houses, by choice or refusal, or lack of openings, then the highest a new noble could claim would be the lowest level, Knight. As more cities or inhabited areas enter the world, more nobility can be added, but a set structure would keep it under control.. I've been in worlds where everyone was a Count this or grand Duke that and it was dull, nobility meant nothing. In other places, with a limited structure, there were enough nobility to do nobility-oriented roleplaying, and others involved had just as much fun interacting with them as the lower classfolk, doing their own things and watching the nobles. Once the structure is in place and filled, and Houses defined with their own goals and strongholds built, it paves the way for lots of IC events and roleplaying at the different places, and can be a lot of fun. Its why I suggest they be features, the Leaders, in order to ensure a continuation of play and plotline development. In fact, these leaders should keep an online notation of plans and plotlines being developed.. helpful to them and to the MOO. Ok, well, that's my ramblings on the subject. If anyone feels spammed, I apologize. I hope my thoughts find favor... -------------------------- Message 201 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 2 11:14:04 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) In any case, every area isn't going to have nobles. Toosay, for instance, already has another form of government. Austin, sofar, is controled more by corps. The RT building, ghostwheel, the firezone, and woods hole aren't exactly places one would find grand lineages, or people in positions of great time honored authority. -------------------------- Message 202 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 4 01:53:56 1995 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility. I still do not see nobility in form of fief-keeping landlords as a very plausible idea in our current environment. Nobility as it stands (in my idea, at least) is more of a title than a real claim to any land, ownership, ect. Particularly common in cities that have old families (i.e. Orleans), this would be a different social class, but they wouldn't neccesarily dictate anything for anyone beyond their family sphere of power. -Stal -------------------------- Message 203 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 4 20:48:26 1995 CST From: Uno (#6614) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Throwing stuff Maybe there should be throwable things (for damage), IE daggers. There could also be a thrown stat such for this. A simple suggestion from, The Un Named One, Uno -------------------------- Message 204 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 4 20:55:01 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: I agree with Uno I actually always wondered why we -couldn't- throw the daggers--they always seemed to me like more of a throwing weapon than a close hand-to-hand combat one. (I'm a paranoid person, and prefer not to get that close to large animals that try to eat me, what can I say?) Making throwing daggers would be cool.... Just my additional 1/2 crystal worth... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 205 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 6 02:20:01 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Might be nice if rooms could be tagged OOC, making them Peaceful and making the (OOC) tags not show up on names. -------------------------- Message 206 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 7 15:03:25 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) i'm new here and only on 18 of this list but have an idea...instead of attack 1 queued...how about something more themely, "you prepare an attack against..." ..or "you prepare yourself to attack or to swing at...whatever..."? -------------------------- Message 207 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 7 19:37:31 1995 CST From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Languages I've noticed that some people list languages on their character sheet, and some don't. Some people even spend points to speak English. It seems to me that most if not all people would have been taught a primary language by their parents, and it doesn't seem to resonable to may a person pay character points to speak that language. It might be easier if people put the language tought to them by their parents or at childhood in their plan, and pay for any other languages they want to speak. -------------------------- Message 208 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 8 13:04:46 1995 CST From: Nebula (#1730) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Languages? What an amusing notion! Have we language translation programs installed to allow players to buy language skills? -Nebula -------------------------- Message 209 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 9 06:07:35 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Nobility I agree it would be nice if we could give nobles a regular stipend of wealth. Unfortunately, this is dependent on having advantages coded so that a crystal-dispensing mechanism could be made that checks who's tagged Nobility. On systems where Factions are given large stipends, bad imbalances result. On GohsMUSH, players of Nobles have reasons to avoid finding new players, which would thin out the pot. On ChivMUSH, the larger faction is the weaker, for this same reasons. Nobility has arisen in the Ghost Earth milieu because of a Chaos-Theory tenet called "increasing returns". In 20th Century RL Earth, we are rapidly losing the class system, becoming more of a ramp spread. In the Middle Ages, though, a small amount of money could lead to huge gains (Them What Has, Gets.). On Ghost Earth, too, this has happened again, and there is no Middle Class, there are Commoners and Nobles. Theoretically, there are NPC protection services (some legit, some racketeer) out there. Player Characters don't deal with them because they are hero-caliber beings who can live in rougher locations and, if they can't tell a bully to take a hike, they can at least leave for another place. Player Characters don't pay Tribute to more powerful people. But you can bet your GPS nearly every NPC in this world gets leaned on by somebody, who is in turn, leaned on by someone else. At the top of these pyramids are the Nobles. -------------------------- Message 210 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 9 13:41:58 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Noble gains Exactly. And to make it fair (for the nobles and wannabes) I'm suggesting the stipend be based on rank yes, but not based on a pot. So adding another noble won't decrease any other noble's gain.. but filling out a noble family brings greater overall wealth to that family.. this encourages development rather than exclusion. -------------------------- Message 211 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 10 21:14:02 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Would like to be able to modify the 'blah is uninjured' message, and the 'wielding anything' message to work better with non-human ahabs. Be able to say 'blah is undamaged' and 'blah isn't armed with anything'. -------------------------- Message 212 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 11 11:30:04 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) bioscanners doing a skill check against medic...not working at 0 0 or if there's a minus.. -------------------------- Message 213 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 11 11:51:36 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: bioscanners This doesn't make sense, though. How much medical skill does it take to hit a button on a little hand-held gadget? I can work a VCR real well--it will record whatever I tell it to. Lord forbid I should actually know how to repair the thing, or even get it to perform half of its more interesting functions.... Maybe if it were so that specific interpretations were unavailable, but just generally it doesn't make sense to me. Just my 2 crystals worth... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 214 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 14 07:11:45 1995 CST From: Gray (#1248) To: *ideas (#504) Well, Nobility could also represent warlords who took over the land from shelter s in past, crime lordsin Austin, , stuff like that,.. -------------------------- Message 215 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 15 19:30:52 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: just reading about furniture on this list, from around november 6th or so... how about adding a seats verb @seat here is rock.space is 1 as "A bumpy rock perfect for sitting on." and have a few prompts to set the messages. @sit rock is You sit your lazy self down. ... this verb, by the way, is intended to be part of the room/tent and could be maxed out at a seating capability of 3 seats with one person on each, or a one seat/log with a seating capacity of 3...either way, it'll still take up a player's quota. this idea, of course, is brought to you courtesy of cyberflex industries, a division of owputngliding corporation, formerly S.I.D.S.R., Inc. -------------------------- Message 216 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 16 11:33:01 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: a tweak to @next on mail now it may already exist in @mail-option manymessages; if so, i didn't understand the help. in any event, how about @next quantity on *whatever so we could read more than one message per command? -------------------------- Message 217 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 16 16:52:08 1995 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: communications Hi I've been talking with Delvish and we have devised an idea for an exclusive submariner language that allows them to communicate over long distances in the water with out the use of a communicator. It is a type of ultrasonic speech akin to whales and dolphins for long range communication and would only be obtainable if you are a subbie. thanks, Drifter extroadinaire (Skywalker) -------------------------- Message 218 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 03:08:29 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: underwater comm Such a device wouldn't really communicate that far.. and really is just another kind of radio. Why add to the DB? Just use a Communicator, and a submariner channel -------------------------- Message 219 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 03:14:40 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: comms See the message on *RPG (@read 47 on *rpg) -------------------------- Message 220 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 03:19:24 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) I don't think they're talking about a device. More of a physical alteration like a dolphin's sonar or a whales blowhole. I makes sense that humans underwater, in constant contact with the environment for hundreds of years would develop some sort of communications system. Scientists now say that whales songs can be heard over hundreds of miles underwater, although the churning of boats engines in a busy harbor would obviously drown them out. -------------------------- Message 221 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 04:13:54 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: whalesong Hmm. But still, whalesong, dolphin squeaks, etc. are caused (I think?) by modulation of sound created by air movement.. they're mammals, breathing and making sounds in a similar way to us. However, Subs were modified to breathe underwater with gills.. aren't they constantly pumping water in and out? Unable to make sounds, they'd have to rely on sign language, or a device of some sort, or else go into one of their cave, vehicles, and etc where they maintain an airy environment. Long distance communication would be by device as well, probably radios kept in their air pockets. But even if given some dolphinlike sound-making natural ability, they wouldn't be comminucating that far.. whalesong might be detectable over hundreds of miles, but my guess would be this is from some of the very large whales. Al whales though can create vibrations far stonger than any human could hope to... except with a device. Again, why not a radio? :) -------------------------- Message 222 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 04:25:14 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Because radios are censored. This is 1000 years in the future, it's very possible that certain communities of humans have developed senses and communication abilities far beyond our own. Of course, this communication ability would probably lead to some submariners with weaker minds going insane due to the 'voices in their head', but hey, everybody has to go nuts sometime. -------------------------- Message 223 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 09:01:34 1995 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Subbies *Grins* Well, the last I read on the subject, whales are capable of sending their songs over thousands of miles underwater. Video I have seen of 'singing' whales does not show 'air' bubbles excaping as they 'sing.' So the lack of air is not a problem. Dolphins use 'sonar' to communicate and triangulate food, they use a series of whistles and clicks...again no 'air' bubbles. I agree with Mulder, over this length of time, if mankind can create recombs and bionics and soulmechs (they have already created the Submariner), it is not out of the question for subbies to have sonar or a 'singing' ability... -------------------------- Message 224 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 09:49:33 1995 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Some fun Yjezra is certainly correct that Submariners use gills and subsequently do not have air bubbles at their disposal more than a few minutes after going undersea, and thus would not be likely to have developed a natural form of communication based on their physical makeup. They are not, however, stupid. A wide range of sounds carry significantly farther underwater, and while it is more difficult to pinpoint their origin if the sound is perhaps a series of clicks tapped out with rocks or a series of minor shock waves pulsed through the water detailing the whereabouts of whatever is going on then the origin won't matter. As for a submariner comm channel, sound distortion will make this difficult undersea beyond the added expense of acquiring water-proof comms. Perhaps we can invest in a specialized comms with an ear-plug that allow for the reception of messages without being garbled by being announced from a comm directly into the water. There is still, of course, the trouble with speaking understandably into comms, but we'll figure something out. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 225 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 11:12:03 1995 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Minor aesthetic choice In '@options combat' we have the ability to +hide_nat, namely when we're not wielding anything have it read ' is unarmed' and not include the message about our fists. I'm wondering if it is possible to do that for the generics of many of the more common beasties; it looks rather silly on a Wendigo when it says, 'Wendigo is unarmed, armed only with her ice gaze' or something to that effect. The same often holds for dragons; ' is unarmed, armed only with his fire breath' etc. It's a minor point but one that would be nice to have switched. -------------------------- Message 226 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Dec 17 17:37:18 1995 CST From: Chelsea (#2649) To: *ideas (#504) Could we have a kick corpse verb to turn them into crystals too? It would look cool. -------------------------- Message 227 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 18 13:11:44 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: about the monsters wielding icy gazes and about tents... i bet the icy gaze is a weapon with a default on its wielded that makes it look funny on monsters. how about a kid of weapon as natural weapon with a different default messages? as for tents, i know there's help on them somewhere. but i haven't found it yet. also, my tent is a bedroll. i'd like to be able to have its description and name change when i unroll it. -------------------------- Message 228 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 18 17:58:09 1995 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Add a feature to @trust to allow a player to see you & .location even when @hidden. -------------------------- Message 229 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Dec 19 00:43:31 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @hangouts This system is useful for encouraging social interaction. @hangout This wiz-only command adds a room to the list of hangouts. Hangouts should have a handful of Seats. They're places that people comfortable loitering in. @hangouts This is a player command. It returns the list of "active" hangouts, and the number of players there. (@hide-ing players aren't counted in this total.) @directory is "" This one is for the owner to write a "guidebook entry". @directory This player command returns the above "guidebook entry". please could we have this? It would be useful for the WEB, Nebula's TeaHouse, the Cafe Romany, and a few more places. :) -------------------------- Message 230 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Dec 19 05:20:48 1995 CST From: Delvish (#5888) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @hangouts Hmmmm, kinda reminds me of a stripped down version of the location finder in the old @who. (Or more like IRC) Give people enough rope and they will hang themselves seems to apply here. People abused OOC information from the location on the @who before and the location portion was removed. The same people who would create havoc by not following the rules will only exploit this. Giving the enemy the number of people at any location, especially public places, will only encourage them to attack people when they are sure no help is a round the corner. With the limited numbers of people we have it makes more sense to me to have to do things more the way I have to IRL." For instance, if I went to a club and wanted to know what rooms they had with people in them, I would be drilled for a , but even then would still have to go an check to see which room held the people I would be looking for. Alas, if I dont have to scour the earth by going to places or using a comm, then Ive taken a leap at God-hood. Chances are we will see people not using the more social places to avoid persons exploiting information obtained OOCly from such a device. Paranoia maybe, but people usually dont realize that breaking some rules can spoil privileges for everyone. My bits worth, Delvish. -------------------------- Message 231 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Dec 19 14:39:15 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Response to Delvish: No offense, but I've got very little patience with our numerous "Seems like" and "But wouldn't?" comments. In the places where @hangouts exists, it doesn't get abused this way. It just doesn't. Yes, some jerk might take to doing that. Then we take individual action and say, specifically, to that individual, "Yes, what you're doing isn't written up as against the rules. But it's obviously annoying, so cut it out." If we worry about these hypotheticals, without looking at the places where they really are already in heavy use, we would have gotten stuck at Page, saying, "But won't some jerk just incessantly page other people and annoy them?" We -do- have specific options under @hide, and if an @hidden person is in the bar, they don't show up on the WHO list. Try this scenario for an Ambusher: E sees somebody is in the WEB. E waits for half an hour outside the WEB for Victim to leave. Victim comes out. Victim gets jumped. Victim runs away. No crystals for E. Victim punches 911 on comm. --or heads back into the WEB where Guru or Collosus are sitting, only too happy to smack around some murderous swine. As it stands, there already -is- a command that lets you look up the location of a person who is not @hidden, plus you can `@walk to' somebody in the same region. The gain in spontaneity and excitement and even paranoia are positives that far outweigh the negatives of "it's really unrealistic" and "it could be abused". -------------------------- Message 232 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Dec 19 15:18:35 1995 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Actually, "@walk to" doesn't work anymore, and for that exact reason. Because seriously, how do you go right to where someone is, if you don't know where they are? It has the same IC problems as a @join verb. Also, there is not a verb for PCs to find the location of other PCs. The 'where' verb that used to be all-access is now listed wiz_only. Frankly, I think it works fine as it stands. If you are trying to find someone ICly (and would know them ICly or have a way of reaching them) you can call them or just look around until you find them. If you're really desperate, you can page them OOCly and -ask- them where they are. People tend to stay in fairly public areas anyway, for the simple reason that otherwise, no one ever finds them. My question is, does this really merit change, is it needed? -Stal -------------------------- Message 233 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 23 13:55:39 1995 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: gold coins As I understand it, gold coins were supposed to be used for currency. It seems that they never caught on and are not presently worth anything. However, if they could somehow be converted into crystals, mabye people would use them. If a wizard set a coin/crystal exchange rate, then they would be like hundred dollar bills or something. There could be a special replicator set up in the lounge and people could come there and change their coins into crystals and vice versa. -------------------------- Message 234 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 25 18:42:45 1995 CST From: Janus (#3597) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: gold coin Well with your system, gold coins would just be a kind of 'alias' for crystal... I won't see why I would exchange my crystals that can save my days for gold that I can't even eat :-) :-) I think if you want gold to be worth something, you have to make interesting stuff we can buy with it... otherwise people will value what allow them to survive: weapon, food, crystal, knowledge, magic. Gold is pointless when your goal is to survive, except if can be traded for something else. The only spcecy that love gold for gold are Dragons and I guess it's in D&D rather than in the HW world :-) Just my 0.02 gold piece Janus P.s. if someone can tell my why D&D dragons likes gold, beside they seems to love using coins as bed, please let me know :-) -------------------------- Message 235 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Dec 25 20:41:47 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Well, if we did have some sort of system of currency aside from crystals, I think there would be things to purchase with them. Infact, I know there would be because I would create some. Thinking about crystals as being sortof akin to carrying around a corpse and it having value, I'd think some people would have a definite problem with that, just like wearing fur is wearing the skin of a slaughtered animal. Having money that isn't gained simply through killing things would, in my vision, be something the RP community would welcome with open arms, because it would mean you could have position and goods and power, and not have to kill things for it. Gold coins would provide a monetary system aside from just the spoils of combat, and I particularly like the idea of being able to convert from one to the other (although fluctuations in the exchange rate would obviously occur), and I'm in support of it 100%, for what it's worth. - Mulder -------------------------- Message 236 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Dec 26 16:13:11 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) (on walking to people) I believe that `walk to ' still works. Not that I think this particular function is necessary, and I could live with it being disabled. Its intent was to make meetings between characters who were in the same region assured instead of likely, an OOC tool for accelerating something that would probably happen anyways over the longterm. It wasn't ever intended for "tracking" other characters, and, in the absence of @hangouts, might have been the "next best thing". When it was first implemented, @hangouts had not yet been invented. :) -------------------------- Message 237 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 27 01:56:48 1995 CST From: Necrobot (#9848) To: *RPG (#1193) and *ideas (#504) Subject: Bionics I have some ideas for whoever is doing the coding for bionics. Nothing severe: no built-in armor or death ray eyes. However, I do think that there are a couple of neato twists that could easily make a cyborg more interesting and useful while not endangering the balance of the MOO or making the other "classes" useless. The first idae is environmental immunity. Nothing extreme here, since as far as I can tell the MOO doesn't require eating, drinking, or sleeping. If there are places in Ghostwheel taht cause damage from ambient cold or heat, this would be something that bionics could be immune to. Useful, but limited. Another idea is a built-in bioscanner. No big deal, other than the character could use it even it her hands were full. The last idea (for this post, anyway) is nightvision. I'm sure there are places here that are dark (though I haven't actually seen any). Nightvision would be a useful but not overpowering thing to give bionic char's. --------- Necrobot -------------------------- Message 238 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 27 10:46:54 1995 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: gold As Janus pointed out--who wants gold? Crystals are something EVERYONE needs; they are not a symbolic currency, they are a commodity--a portable and useful commodity. I'd never intended "gold" as our "legal tender". Crystals aren't "freeze dried corpses". They're distilled spirit. They've a very pure and techno-hermetic power. They are produced not only from violent malicious deaths, but through the natural life-death cycle. I'd rather not have us producing a currency that is of more value hoarded than *used*. Any GM is welcome to buy things for gold, but I caution very strongly against inflation. We do *not* want players with millions of gold pieces (gold weighs much more, btw--we'd realistically be forced to start an encumbrance system) they'll never be able to spend. Now, with a million crystals--you could become some kind of god by consuming such life force. Without having to buy the power from Omnipotence-Iz-Us. -------------------------- Message 239 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 27 11:05:07 1995 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @hangouts Hmm. I can see Razorhawk's point here--it could certainly help newbies find places where they could ask questions, integrate into RPlots. I don't think it would be a problem if it showed only [occupied] or [vacant] rather than population counts. Is anyone strongly against @hangouts? I could create it as a standard feature for players. -------------------------- Message 240 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Dec 27 14:32:22 1995 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: combat Me again. I have been hunting on the GW for quite some time and I have noticed that some creatures have body parts that you can aim at that other monsters don't have. It is frustrating when you try to hit a cainid's groin or a bird's tail and they just don't have them. So why don't we add a feature that tells people what body parts the beastie they are fighting has? It could be added to their descriptions and it would make it much easier when you're hunting if you know what parts you can aim for. Thanks for listening, Skywalker. -------------------------- Message 241 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 05:47:58 1995 CST From: Rain (#399) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: gold and communications and travel If the trading and values system I've been discussing with Quinn is implemented, gold is just fine to have around. I have to argue in favor of gold btw.. I don't believe it would become valueless.. sure maybe in an immediate post-holocaust period when the struggle for survival was extreme.. but not as things are. The world hasn't recovered yet, but there's cities, nobility and background commerce, etc... gold will be valued just as it was in medieval times, as a compact valuable, useful for trade, for decoration, even occasional useful applications such as preventing rust.. these to the general citizenry, and it would be useful as a manufacturing and electronics material for those still functioning bastions of technology. IMO the importance of crystals has been hyped too much.. they _are_ useful certainly, but so is food.. you might stockpile some for general use and for emergencies, but for accumulative wealth I would think another medium would be used. As for such commands as join and walk-to.. I agree these are too useful to PKers and are unrealistic.. they're unneeded too.. all two people have to do is call on a communicator and one tell the other where to meet. Its possible ICly (unlike paging the other character). -------------------------- Message 242 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 09:48:23 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) maybe it's already coded. how about playing catch with an object i toss an object to someone and they catch it and toss it back...has a chance of raising one of our stats...dexterity, perhaps. -------------------------- Message 243 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 11:07:07 1995 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: raining gold Our societies are splintered in this world. Gold coins with the Dakirion president's bust on them may be fine when you're dealing with people who respect Dakirion, but what about those who revile them and the other corps? A splinter society may not need gold, but they could always use crystals. Crystals are *not* just food. They have "magical" healing, spiritual and physical improvement properties. They're more akin to super-vitamins or benign narcotics than "communion wafers." I can understand why some megacorp would want to issue its own standard rather than the rogue chaos of "crystals", but I don't see how someone playing outside of society is going to have any use for it. (A possible exception is the gypsies, which have always had an affinity for jewelry, baubles and precious stones and metals.) The choice of crystals for our "currency" is an idealogical one on my part. Money is a tool to bind and control people, veiling sinister motives of control with romantic notions of nationalism. I don't buy it, and will wholly support iconoclastic characters and classes who prefer to trade a *useful* commodity rather than pocket flags. -------------------------- Message 244 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 12:30:49 1995 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) what about chanukkah gold? with the chocolate inside? -------------------------- Message 245 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 18:10:27 1995 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @hangouts I like the idea, at least as a something we can add as a trial basis. Just put a few very common gathering places in and use [occupied] and [vacant] and someone suggested. If we have problems, we can discontinue it. I think removing player's names from this would eliminate some of the PKiller problems, while allowing people to find each other, something which is a problem here, sometimes. -Stal -------------------------- Message 246 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 18:51:17 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) I like the idea of @hangouts--I understand that it might be misused by some people, but it is nice to know where a large group of people are when you're ooc and in the mood for some sort of large party or another. If it's going to say occupied or vacant--perhaps it should also say whether the majority of people are ooc or ic? That way people looking for good role-playing or just a place to hang out could avoid frustration from barging in to the wrong environment. As far as people misusing the command--maybe if it were an ooc command only? I realize that it is pretty easy to switch back and forth to do this--but the additional hassle might dissuade misuse somewhat. The gold coins sound like a mixed bag of oats to me. It makes sense logically for there to be some sort of general currency on the MOO. Crystals are expendable enough that something with more "value" would make sense. However, for a monetary system to work, there has to be something to give that system value. For the crystals, there is their every-day usages as well as the things you can "save up for" and "purchase" later on. What is there that you could possibly buy with gold that you couldn't purchase with crystals? They are a more general currency, usable by all, than any sort of metal would be... And as far as the dragons on D&D--I think they just like Gold because it is shiny and other people want it a lot. Maybe the stuff holds heat? and it makes their scales look nice and shiny... Just my three or four non-sensical crystals worth.... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 247 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 19:31:30 1995 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Any command preceded by a '@' is, as a general rule, an OOC command. -------------------------- Message 248 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Dec 28 22:29:48 1995 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) I know this. What I meant was: what if it were only possible to use the command while ooc? A lot of them, although ooc commands, we use icly anyway...like @who and stuff like that. How about if the @hangouts command could only be used if a character was -actually- ooc? I don't know how the coding on that would go, but it might be a way to cut down on misuse of it. -------------------------- Message 249 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 29 06:02:16 1995 CST From: Kriamina (#9509) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: blocked exits It doesn't seem right that blocking exits should be absolute and safe. How about having someone blocking an exit be attackable from the other side of that exit? And have a failed move by a creature queue an attack against the blocker of the exit it tried to use? -------------------------- Message 250 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 29 07:40:32 1995 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) On @hangouts-- How about, 0 players = `Inactive', 1-4 = `Activity', and 5-or-more = `Busy' ? -------------------------- Message 251 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 29 11:00:53 1995 CST From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Attacking through exits You can already attack someone blocking an exit. -------------------------- Message 252 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Dec 29 16:37:09 1995 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Exits. To add to Kyn's statement, you can already attack _through_ the exit, at someone blocking on the other side, as you stated. -Stal -------------------------- Message 253 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Dec 30 10:35:05 1995 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @hangouts I think it should just show if anyone is there, not a system showing how many are there. This system would still make it too easy to be abused. Some players out there can still take advantage of 1-4 players. I don't like the @hangouts except for OOC and IC/OOC are still too intermingled IMHO. -------------------------- Message 254 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 2 01:14:39 1996 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ranged weapons I have noticed that there are throwing daggers now but every time you miss, you have to pick it up. So why don't we make a weapon that automatically comes back if you miss?(boomerangs?) Of course they would be harder to obtain but it would be really convenient if you had one. Just a thought. Thanks for listening, Skywalker. -------------------------- Message 255 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 3 15:54:35 1996 CST From: SuMaan (#9155) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: player's homes being carried around it causes a problem for cahracters who sethome to a tent they carry and then disconnect without dropping it, right? So why don't we have the disconnection drop the tent? We could doa test for if the player's.home property is located on the person, and if so, then 'drop' the home (home being tent-like thing, presumably), to the player's location, and then pass(@args). -------------------------- Message 256 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 5 17:22:27 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: a question, of sorts... I'm not sure exactly if this is an idea, an observation, or a complaint, but here goes: I just subscribed to *rpg. I wasn't subscribed to it before. I find that on this mailing list, things I wrote to *ideas were responded to and debated. I fail to see how on earth I was supposed to know/read/respond to things that were posted to this list... Is there any way to fix this problem? It is frustrating to find that a debate was moved to another list without some sort announcement or tracking system of it... Just my grumbling two crystals worth. -Kara- -------------------------- Message 257 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 5 17:45:03 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Yea, real simple fix: subscribe to all the lists... -------------------------- Message 258 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jan 6 00:33:57 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: punchingg bag is there anyone out there who can make a punching bag for me to build up stats with???? -------------------------- Message 259 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 7 13:34:41 1996 CST From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) That's not an *idea. That's a *chat -------------------------- Message 260 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 7 22:29:44 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) It does bring up an interesting question, though. What about a training chamber of sorts, where characters could go to boost their abilities in hand-to-hand combat and the like? Someplace where one didn't need another pc to boost the stats, and where one wouldn't have to murder innocent animals if that's not the type of thing that his or her character is into. There's the training room on Morlith as sort of a general example--how about an ahab trainer to staff a general one that the rest of us could get to? Just a thought.... (and sorry if one already exists...) --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 261 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jan 8 23:14:27 1996 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504), *RPG (#1193), and *Storylines (#5236) Subject: Woodworking tools Would the person who has 'borrowed' my woodworking tools please return them. They have personal value, and I need them for my work. My cottage has been moved, but if you just drop them in the Lost and Found, I'll pick them up. Thanks. Tybon -------------------------- Message 262 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 9 23:29:56 1996 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ranged weapons Skywalker here, I noticed that there are throwing daggers, they must be pretty recent. Well, anyways, my friend had one but it didn't do much damage so why don't we have stronger weapons? o O (javelins?) Well, that's really all I have to say, thanks for listening, Skywalker. -------------------------- Message 263 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 9 23:34:23 1996 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Ranged weapons Soon to be available on the market are Woodsman bows and the arrows to shoot from said bows. Check around...Someone is making them. -------------------------- Message 264 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 12 19:12:00 1996 CST From: SuMaan (#9155) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Follow up Did anyone even look at my idea about the disconnection and dropping one's tent? -------------------------- Message 265 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jan 13 01:47:23 1996 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: pepperspray Now I got an idea, how about an item that allows you to make a person flee when used against them? It would be especially useful if you're being chased by someone and you don't want to or can't fight them. Of course, this would be an item not easily attainable, but it would not be too hard to get. If anyone would like to pursue this idea, page me and I would be glad to help out on the details. P.S. wonder if it's possible to get blacklisted for sending too much mail? Skywalker. -------------------------- Message 266 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jan 13 18:28:56 1996 CST From: Tygren (#5315) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all How 'bout attacks like 'kill/stun all' or 'kill/stun all with ' for those of us who'd like to go berserk and kill everything in sight? It'd sure save me a lot of time in being picky in what I kill, which I'm not. Meaning, 'kill/stun all' would be a lot easier than having to type out 'kill/stun cainid' then switching to 'kill/stun belliflora'. Also, we already have a 'dodge all' so why not be able to 'kill all'? If there's an easier way to go about this without having to make the 'kill all' verb, then someone please tell me. Thanks, just trying to find a way to keep me from getting Carpal Tunnel. ;) Ty -------------------------- Message 267 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jan 13 18:35:34 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all that would be a great idea i think, although it could be missused quite easily, being, if someone walks into the room and you kill them useing kill all, they complain to a wiz, and you say, "i didn't see him walk in and i was useing kill all" which may be the reason there isn't one around.... just putting my thoughts in... -=DW=- -------------------------- Message 268 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sat Jan 13 19:01:21 1996 CST From: Yzryel (#5314) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all Drywater, that makes a lot of sense as to how 'kill all' might accidentally cause a player to attack another player if that player walks into a room where it is cued, but I think that Tygren's main point was to use it when he "goes beserk" or just wants to see anyone's/anything's blood at the end of his sword, er, claws (whatever). It'd be kind of like walking into the middle of a shootout, just slightly different. Heh, I've been in a couple of brawls where I've mistakenly hit very good friends and had the same done to me 'in the heat of combat' so I don't see any prob with it. Good idea. Yzryel, Elwynd's rider. -------------------------- Message 269 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 14 11:25:47 1996 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all would like to see a continuous fighting, as to not have to type kill first cainid's snout three times for each cainid..where you engage an object, and you dont stopp attacking till its dead or knocked out.. also if you could engage the whole room the same way..would help my poor crumnbling fingers..hehe couple other thoughts for the lesser classes of players perhaps theft, and grapple..would be great..would increase rp.. haveing a few theifs, and muggers about.. would like to finally pick a lock, or at least be able to burst through a locked door..that would be fun..heh.. I think thats it..anyways. I can always write another.. BTW wizzen--- You guys are doing a great job..Pats on the back, all the way around.. you thought I was done huh?? well I am..Restin.. -------------------------- Message 270 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jan 15 16:20:49 1996 CST From: Chaos (#5615) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @go was wondering why you could @go while IC..dosent make much sense to me.. also was wondering why, you can go ooc, in an Ic area?? just a couple of thoughts.. Executioner, Chaos. Lord of all evil -------------------------- Message 271 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jan 15 16:52:46 1996 CST From: Chaos (#5615) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: death really wish a dead was automatically gagged upon death..since, he cant recall who killed him anyways.. also while im at it..can death be an automatic @reroll! if you die twice in the same week or soemthing?? again, just my thoughts.. Executioner, Chaos., lord of all that is Evil.. -------------------------- Message 272 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 16 14:18:06 1996 CST From: Ylanya (#7160) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: just a question I don't know if this would be logical or not...but...since the entry message on the dojo on Jizo island says that "you remove your shoes and enter," would it be possible to have it automatically remove any clothing thats coverage is set to "feet"? -------------------------- Message 273 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jan 18 22:14:09 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) A little problem I see with this 'kill all' thing is that, while the ic premise is good, it might be quite ticky (laggy). While the queueing only allows 10, after which will not receive more forked tasks. With this, would continually call the fighting/attack sequence (usually a rather long one) until alla monsters in the .location are dead. So, while it might just suspend() a lot, still, the forked_tasks() might become increasingly large. Thoughts of one who can't read GhostCode -------------------------- Message 274 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jan 18 23:02:34 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Okay... I have absolutely no idea what Griffen's last post meant exactly...(I am in no way, shape, or form a coder. The jargon is greek to me. Or maybe Russian...) But the idea that it would cause more lag makes sense to me, even if I don't understand the logistics of why. The problem I have with this idea isn't that it would help with killing monsters and IC murdering frenzies...but that it would have an extreme penchant for misuse by pcs. It sounds like a good idea, but one that would be -SO EASY- to abuse that it would not even be worth the coding. (hate to spend that much time on something just to have to remove it again... I mean, if players abuse an @who that lists player locations, what on -earth- will they do with a kill all command?) Just my two crystals worth. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 275 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jan 18 23:07:33 1996 CST From: Balth (#3746) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Griffen and Kara's posts Well, for all those who didn't understand Griffen's post, it goes like this: There is something here on the moo that restricts us to queing only 10 actions. If we were to implement a 'kill all' command, it would have to have pauses, or lag, however you want to describe it, in order to free up memory so that it can continue killing everything without slowing the moo down to a halt. I could see that happening, but as far as the merits of players abusing a power like that, I think that it is a feasible command. Look at places like CyberSphere, where you, in effect, have a kill all command. It will always be survival of the fittest, no matter what commands you decide to use. Just my 1 1/2 cents. Balth(MIA) -------------------------- Message 276 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 19 16:40:31 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Sorry.. Anyway, if there is a problem of misuse... How about a 'class' of beserkers, wild men that were exposed to the radiation of the wastelands so they all are always half-crazy.... Would be themely for them to lose all control and 'kill all'. *And*, as they could only do it, use would be limited (and lag not as big)... --Grif -------------------------- Message 277 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 21 14:06:00 1996 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Lag and 'kill all'. Yes, there probably would be some measures instituted to drop lag directly to yhe 'kill all'er, but it's important to remember that even holding an action that will happen later in memory takes up a constant set of ticks. i.e., all the MOO gets lagged with you to some degree. This happens even now, when you have a whole bunch of folks out fighting on the GW. I also do see a tremendous amount of abuse available with this command. Maybe a possibility for a random call with tremendous insanity or something, but I don't see much use for it, beyon that. An alternative would be a use a 'kill *' command or something, which would queue an attack upon a random occupant of the room. btw, a major part of why CS is _always_ lagging is its combat system. -Stal -------------------------- Message 278 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 21 14:37:03 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all instead of a kill all, why not just have the kill cainid do just that....attackingg till the cainid is dead....and stun cainid do just thatt, stun till he is out cold... and have it do just one person, that would make it a lot easier for killing, but not have the lag of attacking everyone at once.... -------------------------- Message 279 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 21 18:02:05 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all But if you had a command that would just continuously attack something until either you or it was dead, what would happen when you changed your mind about killing that particular entity? Like...what if said cainid starts hurting you abit too badly, and you would like to flee? Or dodge, for that matter? The way the system is now, at least in this instance, you can choose what order you kill, dodge, stun, call shots, etc. in--if the command just automaticaly repeated itself until the object of said command was killed, it would take away the ability to rp the fighting effectively by using the variety of kill/dodge/etc. patterns. Just my two cents worth... -kara- -------------------------- Message 280 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 21 18:07:13 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all well, we could have a 'kill cainid' for normall attacking and then 'attack cainid' to kill it off, and cancel would cancle the attack.....and it should be made so you can say what you want to attack, such as 'attack cainid'neck' would attack his neck over and over.... -=DW=- -------------------------- Message 281 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 23 12:34:04 1996 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: "finger is there a tell for when someone fingers you?? the way you can set the owatched message?? if not, would it make any sense to anyone to know?? just a thought Restin.. -------------------------- Message 282 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 23 14:04:39 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Still, even just a 'kill cainid' til it's dead would cause more lag. For the computer would constantly loop (executre) the sequence until monster is no longer alive. A player could go afk, and still be fighting a hard monster for hours, causing great lag. I've seen misuse happen, and it's ungly. We shouldn't, imo, go in this direction. --Grif -------------------------- Message 283 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 23 17:06:42 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: very good point there, how about just a command that will launch ten attacks on the thing, cutting ttyping by alot, and if your que is full, it sends the same message it sendds now if it's full....like mabe just a verb that does 'kill ' ten times. you get what i'mm sayying? -=DW=- -------------------------- Message 284 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 00:17:47 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Could we not have clothing drop at death? It's just a pain, and serves no useful purpose. Infact, it stops people from sharing clothes. -------------------------- Message 285 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 08:58:59 1996 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: grumble! In the past 2 days I've eaten nearly 15k crystals, nearly my entire accumulated reserve for my time here. I ate them in clusters in the range of 850-900, and with varying time intervals between them to see if I would improve my base stats. I did so 3 times, after wasting an obscene amount of crystals. Naturally I'm bitter, but my complaint isn't so much that the I blew my nest egg, but that the crystals themselves have effectively been devalued. Without any automated shops or stores the only thing crystals are reliable for now is for healing, and how many do you really need at one time to be safe? 200? 300? They're edible band-aids. I propse that they be augmented slightly. Eating stat * 10 would have what it does now..a seemingly 1 out of 8 chance of boosting you. Eating stat * 15 would give you 1 out of 4, and stat * 20 1 out of 2. Perhaps at a certain level the imput of the profusion of life-energy is so great that you automatically boost. And remember, you'll be gaining 1 pt after eating, on average, 1500-2000 crystals...hardly a deal, and yet an improvement on the current system. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 286 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 12:20:13 1996 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) so the looping on the kill command could default to a maximum of 10 queued tasks, same as now. that might even cut down on lag, as the computer wouldn't have to interpret 10 commands for 10 actions...just one command for 10 results... -------------------------- Message 287 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 17:09:21 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: last 2 posts first, elendil, for me to boost effecvly, i have to eat 1200 crystals.... and it does work for me.... i think maybe your system along with the currennt one mayybe, but not just that one...it is to many crystals for most people.... on to the next post so someone does understand what i was saying....i think yoou are right about the lag probblem, and it would speed up the attacks for the person, plus make it easier on all those ppl out there who are gettingg arthritiss from typeing so much.... -------------------------- Message 288 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 18:33:33 1996 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Crystals and Clothing To address a couple of subjects: 1) Clothing dropping at death does do something _very_ useful. It keeps people from just hanging onto their armour forever. They die, they lose it. 2) Crystals. There seem to be the misconceptions about the system. Y'see, griping about assumptions that aren't true won't help much. Eating 10* a stat does not guarantee improvement, particularly as you proceed. Like anything else, you build up a tolerance and it takes more and more to really feel it. How _much_ more, you can figure out for yourselves. -Stal -------------------------- Message 289 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 19:11:20 1996 CST From: Clara_Bow (#2376) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: clothing disappearing on death While I'm all behind being IC, is the IC society of Ghost such that every corpse gets stripped like a car if it's left unattended for 30 seconds? I think some would have respect for the dead and not rob them of their clothing. -LL (okay, I'm trying to protect my explicit messages, fuck off!) ;) -------------------------- Message 290 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 19:16:26 1996 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: re: clothing & death Nope, you don't haveta get stripped moments after death and it is really a moot point because a) corpses don't carry your @nudity messages and b) clothing you _own_ will always stay on you. 'sides, in the real world clothes aren't just spirited off of someone when they die. They stay there, on the body. Messy to remove perhaps, but believe me, some wasteland scavengers are willing to do just about anything. ;) -Stal ,. -------------------------- Message 291 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 22:18:28 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: clothing Okay--let me get this straight. We're arguing whether or not we get to keep our -clothing- when we die? Okay. I'm all for realism and all--but I think that losing clothing is a bit too much. I can deal with losing my rapier, my tent, my boots, even the little scar between the fingers on my left hand. However, upon my character's death, I would prefer not to share my nudity messages with the world the moment I walk out of the Midrealm. Especially if I have managed to use up my quota by then, and can't replicate anymore. There are limits to reality, guys--and no one wants to walk around nude. (okay, not most of us, most of the time. Especially in the radioactive deserts....but ANYWHO). I can understand dropping everything else upon character death--but let us remain clothed. It just becomes perverse etc. when we don't. Just my two crystals worth. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 292 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Jan 24 23:22:37 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Clothing The checks to see if the clothing would drop would obviously check to see if it was armor or not, and if it was armor, it would drop. I'm talking about people lending each other shirts, swimsuits, boots, etc. Stuff that doesn't carry any special properties other than covering up your nekkid self. Right now everything you own stays with you, but everything you don't, doesn't. This can be irritating if you lend a newbie some boxers to cover emself with, or somebody gives you a rose as a sign of affection. I can see the importance of crystals (for the most part), armor (definetly), weapons (definetly), and magical items (definetly) being dropped when you die, but not other things. Loosing those things just annoys people. -Mulder -------------------------- Message 293 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jan 25 16:13:45 1996 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: just a thought Just a thought...most places have some sort of inspect function that prints out a bunch of messages conforming to the victim (?)'s stats..ie %N appears quite strong. E walks easily, and gazes about alertly. Etc. I know that we've already got messages for crippling etc, and that the scanners give out bar-readings of stats, but I think it'd be neat to have smoother @ic appraising abilities to give actual descriptions to those readouts. This way people would also perhaps tailor their descriptions to better reflect their stats, or vice-versa; no more looking at someone described as a 6'8" cut boxer and then noting that they've got a strength of 42. Oh, right..these'd be base stats..nothing about bladed, etc. Thoughts? -------------------------- Message 294 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Jan 25 22:39:30 1996 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: crippleing injuries.. is there any chance of obtaining a command for breaking, and crippleing players, ie, arms and legs. to directly affect mobility?? is anyone interested? I personally would like to see it. just curious.. Restin. -------------------------- Message 295 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 03:08:57 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: crippling injuries. If there -were- crippling injuries, is there any way that they could be made "harder to heal". Such as scars, etc....or a broken arm that won't heal itself in a few hours of sleep or disconnecting. Just a thought. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 296 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 08:44:12 1996 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: crippling injuries.. good Idea Kara..but, perhaps you would have to use the bay..instead of using the medkit or perhaps you can eat crystals..just decrease their healing value.. nuff said..lets hear from the people who can make it happen.. Restin. -------------------------- Message 297 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 13:40:31 1996 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Crippling Well, I learned from experience if you, as an example, 'knockout rous's foot or leg it will cripple. I tried it on a player..and yup, it worked. -------------------------- Message 298 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 17:29:37 1996 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: maiming If you try to 'kill' a non-vital location such as an extremity once the victim is wounded past a certain point it will cripple. -------------------------- Message 299 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 23:42:27 1996 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Crippling Yes, you can 'kill' an extremity, but that also causes damage..if you just wish to cripple, use the knockout command. :) -------------------------- Message 300 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Jan 26 23:57:13 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504), *RPG (#1193), and *Bugs (#1294) Subject: LAG SUCKS!!!! LAG SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! justt thought i would say that...:) had to get it out... -------------------------- Message 301 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Jan 28 23:11:05 1996 CST From: Restin (#4641) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: B&D hey, is anyone interested? would love to see shackles, and handcuffs, and whips, etc...hehe would add a bit I think..to be able to gag someone icly..heheh just a thought..hehe have fun kiddies.. Restin. -------------------------- Message 302 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jan 29 21:36:34 1996 CST From: Ember (#8891) To: *ideas (#504) Could we make it so that Osbornn tells a joke when you ask him? -------------------------- Message 303 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Jan 29 21:37:02 1996 CST From: Kriamina (#9509) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: idea for change to list activity notification When one logs in and is given the notification of which lists have new activity and how many new messages, there's some unused area off to the righthand side. Something that would make it a lot handier for the player when the message base is scanned for new entries, would be if it also listed the last message# read on that list (when there is new activity). I'm constantly having to do a @mail # to # on List, to scan and see where the last one I read is.. being reminded as a part of the notification would make navigating the message lists much easier. :) Please consider it? Thoughts? comments? -------------------------- Message 304 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 30 00:30:33 1996 CST From: Yjezra (#5288) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: News/Lists If you type @read new on * it will take you to the start of new posts to that group. There is a help on @read and @subscribe. You can also try @rn, it tells you if there is any unread posts in the you are subscribed to. If you have your notification turned off, type @options mail. -------------------------- Message 305 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 30 02:56:26 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: robots Would it be possible to have an Ahab that you pay to swing at you? And you can reset it's stats whenever you wanted to, so the harder players could boost him all they want, and the weeklings could reset them so they could use it also...It could be like you pay one crystal and it swings at you twice.... -------------------------- Message 306 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 30 10:54:41 1996 CST From: Talin (#4095) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Reading groups... The most useful command in the world when dealing with mail, news, and lists... @nn It forwards you one article at a time, beginning with new news, if there is any, new mail, if there is any, and the new list activity. Me -------------------------- Message 307 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 30 11:13:54 1996 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: radiation suits How environmental are these things? (@icly). They're described as having an air feed; can you also venture into, say, the river of toxic goo outside the r/t building with them? They also seem to be proof against rooms full of poisoned gas... -------------------------- Message 308 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Jan 30 15:42:32 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) They're made for radiation, they're not made for scuba-diving. They're also not space suits, so no, you can't walk into the river of toxic goo with them. They're also not perfect, so I wouldn't depend on them 100%. -------------------------- Message 309 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 1 01:35:07 1996 CST From: Yzryel (#5314) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kill all et al.. ok, I've watched the posts go by talking about the pro's and con's of a command like 'kill all' and even the posts of several other ideas go by with similar debates, but I haven't seen any final word on some of them yet. It seems that as soon as one topic pops up, the previous one is almost completely forgoteen and makes room for the new idea. Is this list just for people to send their ideas to and have them discussed w/out really wanting them to be implemented or is this list for actual ideas that people might eventually want made real? If the latter, then can we get some 'final word' on previous ideas that have been presented, but never 'officially' decided on whether they could be implemented? imho, some of the past ideas presented where actually good ones and some I thought could even help make our little world a better place. Of course, there were others that were stinkers, but you can't win 'em all. Just curious, Yzryel, Elwynd's rider. -------------------------- Message 310 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 1 14:19:26 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: last post Well, the kill all was ruled out because it would cause to much lag on the moo, and the kill which attacked till the thing died was ruled out because of possible misuse, aka saying to kill a really hard to kill thing, then idling while you sit and attack.... I would like to know what happened to the verb to launch 10 attacks though, it would get rid of some lag being that the moo would only have to interpret 1 command instead of 10 of them... Also, what is the status of the monster situation and the crystal thing as well.... -------------------------- Message 311 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 1 15:00:07 1996 CST From: Elendil (#2237) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: monsters n crys The chimaera appears to be active, for those of you big game hunters. At last word he's worth...well, over 25..I'm not going to spoil it for you. For my 2 bits, the executioner birds are a deal; aim at the heads and you can kill mebbe 50 crys worth in 10 min as opposed to chasing a nasty chimaera or wendigo about the moo for 20 min. Oh, and the slisssh are nice middle-level type beasties. --Elendil -------------------------- Message 312 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 2 22:48:45 1996 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: B&D... Whips and handcuffs are coded; I'll send ya a set, Restin. :> -RH -------------------------- Message 313 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 2 22:55:52 1996 CST From: Razorhawk (#80) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: p.s. The whip is coded to do very little damage-- although in the hands of somebody very strong it's still formidable, and the user is advised to "spoof" actions using ! instead. The handcuffs are really just reconfigured clothing. Since it's presumably consensual play, the, mm, "captive" has to @trust someone to dress them in the handcuffs. LambdaMOO has a "safeword" system for bondage, and you can "gag" the other person; we're not about to go that far here. ;) -------------------------- Message 314 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 2 22:59:49 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: oh my Kinky!!! (I like it) ;) -Kara- -------------------------- Message 315 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 2 23:01:45 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: kinky shit hey, everyone enjoys at least a LITTLE b&d, whethere they try it or not, that is up to them... I for one think some is ok, but when you start pulling out the straight jackets, man i'm outta there... -------------------------- Message 316 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Feb 4 00:57:30 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *RPG (#1193) and *ideas (#504) Subject: okey dokey I admit that I am a little late in getting in to this one, but I do feel that it brings up a valid point. There -are- many pcs who think of Ghostwheel more as some sort of Mortal Kombat video-game MUD environment than as an actual Role-playing Game where the point is to -act out- a character, an environment, and a storyline rather than go about and kill everything in sight. Would it be possible to add some sort of notification banner to the process of character creation alerting people to this? It is frustrating for both parties in this argument: the hack-n-slashers wish to be allowed to hack-n-slash, and the true role-players wish to have an actual storyline and to be allowed to "live" in this alternate reality. If there were a way to weed out potential problems/misunderstandings in the first place, it might save a lot of angst and player conflict..like that noted above in *rpg. Just my two cents worth... --Kara-- P.S. I apologize in advance for multi-posting, but I felt that it should be sent to both lists. (thanks for understanding) -------------------------- Message 317 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Feb 4 21:08:38 1996 CST From: October (#9816) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: OOC Public Chat? I was wondering if, perhaps, we cold get some form of public chat system forr OC Players? I think it would save quite a bit of trouble, and would solve the *problem* of hidden wizzes. That way, someone who what having trouble could just chat OOCly and others who were on the chat line could try and help. thanx, October -------------------------- Message 318 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Feb 5 06:15:30 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Why not just use the OOC comm channel? -------------------------- Message 319 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Feb 7 22:30:16 1996 CST From: Yseult (#4778) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Just a thought. Lately everyone has been dealing and selling things and so forth and I've gotten numerous pages as Ys and other characters about if i have anything to sell or if I want to buy anything, which causes me to page them back and tell them to call me ICly on my comm. So, in response to this, is there any way we can put a board in the lounge for people to tack there wares or wantads up for all to see. I say the lounge because so many frequent it, seemed logical. Thanks, Ys -------------------------- Message 320 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 8 02:59:03 1996 CST From: October (#9816) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: message #318 1) I have no idea what the OOC comm channel is 2) My comm sometimes has a little problem under standing anything over three words long. 3) It would be much easier to just be able to type 'chat OOC ' thanx October -------------------------- Message 321 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 8 15:51:47 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Rather a moo-ish thought rather than one dealing with the RPG; but can a simple @read-all-mail be created? If something like one exists, sorry for the spam, but I'm not aware of it. Thanks... Griffen -------------------------- Message 322 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Feb 9 17:50:25 1996 CST From: Ylanya (#7160) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Bulletian board on Mount Morlith Don't know if this is the right place to post or not...but could someone -please- fix this thing? We can't pull old messages off of it...and every time that you read through it, it gives you all of the old messages over again...not even a choice as to which you would like to read. As a suggestion for this, and bulletian boards in the future... 1) Could there be a system whereby postings are numbered, and you type a specific number to read that particular slip of paper? This would save on the spam. 2) old messages either cycled off or removable by the writer...this would save on the exceptionally old messages that are still on the board. I'm thinking of one kinda like the one in the back room of the Syndrome on CyberSphere. It's a lot less spammy, the old out-of-date messages dissappear regularly, and you have a choice which slips of paper that you read...just like you would with an actual bulletian board. Thanks for listening. --Ylanya-- -------------------------- Message 323 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Feb 21 18:44:53 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Could perhaps some things be added to the @trusted list? I was thinking about primarily things in @privacy-options -- you want some people to know where you all, or your email, etc... This is especially useful for things like hide_loc and hide_who when rp-ing. --Griffen -------------------------- Message 324 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Feb 22 10:13:27 1996 CST From: Quinn (#2) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: griffen Excellent idea, Griffen! I was considering installing the Lambda @refuse mechanism to handle such things--I may still. But @trusting to override "page_haven" and hide_loc might be a better idea. I'll try to get around to one of the solutions this weekend. -------------------------- Message 325 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 1 12:48:39 1996 CST From: Oryama (#6359) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Lost and found box The lost and found box seems generally totaly overwhelmed with stuff. People seem to be losing there stuff and then just making a new one. Just thought perhaps a wiz could go through it once in awhile and recycle things no longer in use. Oryama -------------------------- Message 326 from *ideas (#504): Date: Thu Mar 7 15:11:37 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Well, message priviledges can be revoked if players cheat (mis-message items). Perhaps the same should go for 'home'. If a player is not a Mage, and they are using the home command in order to escape a battle (especially rp-ing b/w players), then they should loose this ability. --Grif -------------------------- Message 327 from *ideas (#504): Date: Fri Mar 8 21:28:38 1996 CST From: DryWater (#7502) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @gag Would it be possible to have a @fullgag list? Like @gag would gag someone, unless they attacked you...Like it is now... And @fullgag would gag someone and leave them gagged no matter what...even if they attack you... Or, it would gag thier actions and anything they say, but they could still page you if they wanted... I think that doing this would down the battle lag a little being that it wouldn't have to send the results or anything to the person being attacked... It could be used mostly during sparring to keep lag down..... Just an idea, Got a new keyboard, can you tell? DryWater -------------------------- Message 328 from *ideas (#504): Date: Sun Mar 10 04:39:52 1996 CST From: Moonheart (#6143) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Mages mailing list I think Mages could use a mailing list ...... Mnht -------------------------- Message 329 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 13 19:18:33 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: "parsing Num. of Tents. You see a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a corpse of monster, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, a tent, and a sleeping bag. Prolly be less spammy and a lot more readable to parse: You see 13 tents, a corpse of monster, and a sleeping bag. Same thing could probably be used to handle 4 corpse of cainid, or other multiples.... Don't know how number parsing works, but would think it's rather simple to implement... --Grif -------------------------- Message 330 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 13 19:30:27 1996 CST From: Griffen (#9676) To: *ideas (#504) Hrm... guess I was wrong, the number parsing already occurs. Strange. Coulda sworn otherwise....oh well. --Grif -------------------------- Message 331 from *ideas (#504): Date: Mon Mar 18 12:31:48 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: @ooc/@ic Would it be possible to make it so that @ooc commands--like the note editor, mail, etc. would NOT work when characters are IC? This might save a lot of problems, like those Moonheart (in *chat) and others have mentioned with people going into the Note Editor to avoid combat and things of the like. Just a thought... --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 332 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 02:27:11 1996 CST From: Ylanya (#7160) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Game Wizzen In regards to recent political problems here on the MOO, I have a suggestion for a revamping of the wizard/programmer/pc designations. Some of these problems would be averted if wizards did not have IC status. If these characters were kept separate in power and authority from pcs, it might help with rp on the moo. The use of wizard powers in an IC situation can be disruptive to role-playing in the area. Also, the ooc authority of a wizard character can make it difficult for players to portray IC situations to the best of their ability, for fear of reprimand. Furthermore, the juggling of IC and OOC concerns while playing a wizard character under the current system creates stress by increasing the number of tasks that must be handled at the same time. If IC and OOC were separated in the manner suggested here, it would reduce the amount of stress put upon wizzen at any given moment. Thank you for your time and consideration. --Ylanya-- -------------------------- Message 333 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 02:28:49 1996 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Ylanya's Post. I think Ylanya's proposal is a good idea. -------------------------- Message 334 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 02:49:31 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: IC/OOC Wiz's Ok, let me get this straight. You think if a player had worked hard enough, learned enough, proved themselves, and become a wiz... they shouldn't be allowed to RP as that character? Balderdash. Quinn tried it once. It didn't work. People still page you asking for stuff, because they know who you are. So uses of wiz powers can be distruptive. If you mean that tinkering with things and stuff like that is distruptive, so is highway repair, but if it doesn't happen, you get potholes. If you mean wiz's using the first circle mage powers, that's their IC right. They're _wizards_ after all. If you fear a reprimand for what you're doing... maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, eh? If you think a wiz is being unfair or purposely disrupting RP, drop Quinn a note. Just because wiz's have positions of authority doesn't mean they should be punished for it. I've been here for more than two years, taught countless newbies the ropes, created areas, generics, weapons, and I'm sure as hell not going to give it up because some player shits a brick when I walk into the lounge and get a drink. - Mulder -------------------------- Message 335 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 05:34:50 1996 CST From: Balth (#3746) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Wizzes being IC/OOC Not only no, but hell no. The reason I say this is because this was all brought about by a problem with one wizard, not all of them. The specifics don't need to be brought up here, nor do I think anyone else should. The fact of the matter is you are making this generalization to all Wizzes. As Mulder pointed out, many of the Wizzes here have RP'd for a *long* time and proved themselves in order to get their bits. As far as Wizzes having to multitask by doing OOC things while IC, if this did not occur, you wouldn't have *any* plots around here. And I truly don't think that any of you want that to happen. Another problem with your theory is that many of the Wizzes around here don't go IC anyways most of the time. I've seen Stalinger IC about twice in my year and a bit here. Most of us are busy coding anymore. I've seen Mulder go IC once, but even if he decided to start going IC all the time, it is his right to because he's worked hard for this MOO and should get to keep his character. Now, what I believe Ylanya and Tybon are suggesting is something like Cybersphere, where you have your IC character, and a separate OOC Wiz. I don't think this is a good idea, either. Reasons are thus: Sometimes, in order to further a storyline, having your IC character have Wizbit permissions is necessary. Case in point: the opening of New Genesis. If my character could not use portals (a wiz perm) then, noone would have been able to get over the wasteland walls. This would also eliminate all 1st circle Wizards ICly, since you need Wiz perma, er perms , to use the 1st circle powers. All of them. As for stress, we all know what we're applying for when we put in our apps to be Wizzen. My stress is more than justified if good RP sessions come out of it. If you have a particular problem with a Wiz doing questionable things, that is another matter...take it up with Quinn. But as for revamping the IC/OOC wiz status, I think it is unnecessary and unneeded. Balth -------------------------- Message 336 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 07:52:27 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: game wizzen 1) As Balth says in his messag, the majority of wizzen do not go IC anyways. If this is the case, then it would not be a "major problem" to separate the character classes, but rather a matter of simple designation. 2) There are several game "wizzen" who are -NOT- ICly mages. Therefore, although they have worked hard for that wiz bit, it is not something that is necessary to include on their IC personas. This is not a suggestion trying to eliminate game wizzen or first-circle mages, but rather to try and help fix a problem that seems to be pretty common on this MOO. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 337 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 12:43:40 1996 CST From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Wiz in IC This is something that has been debated again and again, much like a dog chasing his tail. And as we seemed to have more or less agreed, those wizbits who want to go IC can do so. It is a personal decision. I personally, play my wizbit ICly as a 1st circle mage who is very busy doing things that are beyond most peoples comprehension. And since I am a mage, using those powers listed are not a problem. We who are working on the magick system are working out a way to seperate the wiz perms from the 1st circle powers. Most of those wiz who ICly mages do not often go throwing about magickal effects. But OOC it is a their given right to do what they can. eg shortcuts. -------------------------- Message 338 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 16:02:51 1996 CST From: anj (#9806) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Okay. so Mulder walked into the lounge and had a drink. Then he had another drink and another...and then he got into trouble? So the problem here is Osbornn. Isn't he supposed to cut people off when they've had too much? So third circle is player, and first circle is programer. Is that why there are no second circle spells? -------------------------- Message 339 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 16:09:24 1996 CST From: Eve (#6401) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Wiz's IC Personaly I wish the Wiz's would go IC and play their characters more. If I'm going to die I would prefer to die at the hands of someone more experienced. -------------------------- Message 340 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 17:39:03 1996 CST From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Re: Anj There are no 2nd circle spells coded, which should be changing very shortly. -------------------------- Message 341 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 18:58:12 1996 CST From: Deckard (#3748) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Wizzes IC/OOC I think it's insane to say that wizards should have the right to be IC taken away. That to me is like saying that all non-wizards should have the right to be OOC taken away because we can all just abuse the priviledges of being OOC like home and @move because we might misuse them. We do do this, at least some of us do but that's not enough reason to restrict everyone. This is the same case for wizzes. It doesn't work to hurt everyone to make things safe. And even if a small number of wizards were hurting rp by missusing their powers it can't compare to the giant amount that wizzes contribute to rp. Without them, the tp wouldn't exist. I can't think of any large rp event that's happened here that isn't the work of one or more of the wizards. And it's not just that they can use their bits to create tps, but that the wizards on GhostWheel are definately amoung the best role players here. Quinn didn't chose these people to help run GhostWheel for nothing, he chose them because he thinks that they're are good enough and can do their job right. If you want to take away their IC abilities, please take mine too. -------------------------- Message 342 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 20:24:48 1996 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: ... On ic/ooc wizzes. It should first be noted that wizbits are purely ooc concepts. They are given for ooc reasons, and reflect ooc abilities. The only ic function of wizbits is to simulate 1st circle mage abilities, and Kynwal stated that an effort is being made to seperate these abilities from the wizbit perms, so this function is wavering on obsolete. Several of the wizzes aren't even 1st circle mages, so would lose no ic abilities anyways. Structuraly, the wizzes would lose no abilities whatsoever. Rather, the system Ylanya suggested would separate two entirely different functions, thereby making both of them easier. To borrow Mulder's metaphor, it is as difficult to fix potholes while playing the Duchess of York as it is to play the Duchess of York while fixing potholes. Balth claims that the proposal was made because of the actions of one wizard. Yes, and no. It is true that the impetuous was a long-term series of complaints (starting before I joined this moo) about a wizard who was using ooc status to severely impair the rping abilities of several players. (Attempts have been made to bring this matter to Quinn's attention, generally with little success). However, the proposal was not made because of the actions of this wizard, or of similar actions by other wizards. (There are incidents). It was proposed because it is a more sensible sturcture than the existing one. And if it does succeed in reducing such conflicts, great. It gives Quinn less to worry about. (As far as stress levels of wizzes, I hate having to deal with wizzes who've been having a bad day...anything that reduces their stress level is great from a player's standpoint). I agree with Balth that the system on CyberSphere would not work here. The political structure on this moo is bad enough without adding a bureaucracy. However, Ylanya's proposal is not CS's. Wizzes would lose nothing by it. Structuraly it just makes more sense. I support Ylanya's proposal completely. Both of us feel that it would improve the moo, or we would not have bothered to post. If it has been discussed before, fine. Clearly there are reasons to discuss it again. If it has been tried before, fine. Perhaps it needs to be tried again. Things change. I think the proposal would work. --Tybon -------------------------- Message 343 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 20:36:33 1996 CST From: Mulder (#709) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: IC/OOC Wiz Bits Wizbits are not purely OOC concepts. Some wizbits are, yes. Utility wiz's are, but that's it. I don't think there will _ever_ be a day when first circle wiz powers don't require wizbits. It would be too easy to screw with things with powers like that. Many wizbits are given to players in effort to enhance RP and build. This is more of a GM status, but that's another story. There need to be IC entities with wiz powers to further RP, because if you don't have it, things don't happen. Just because a person works hard enough to become a wiz doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to RP. What a haughty thought. That's like saying that a company president shouldn't be allowed to use the companys public restrooms. It's stupid. If you have a problem with a wiz, talk to Quinn. If you don't succeed, send him e-mail. He's the final word on this MOO, and even if you persuade the entire MOO, wiz's won't be IC/OOCly seperated unless he says so. - Mulder -------------------------- Message 344 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 21:40:06 1996 CST From: Kynwal (#1610) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Addendum to my post The 1st circle mage powers will be independent of having a wizbit. This is so we won't have to have every 1st circle mage to have a wizbit. Some of the 1st circle powers will still require the aid of a progbit. -Kyn -------------------------- Message 345 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 21:40:28 1996 CST From: Kara (#3779) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: wiz bits The idea of creating wizbits as solely OOC concepts is not intended to stop the people with wizbits from roleplaying. It is not meant to punish those who "work...hard enough to become a wiz" by not "allowing" them to RolePlay any longer. Rather, it is intended to -separate- the IC character from the OOC wizfunctions. As in: you are awarded a wizbit. You create a -new character- to handle that wizbit, which is an OOC only entity, and continue playing your original character -as is- (as in a PC character without wizperms). This is what is meant by the idea of having Wizbits and role-playing characters as separate entities. --Kara-- -------------------------- Message 346 from *ideas (#504): Date: Tue Mar 19 23:32:12 1996 CST From: Stalinger (#657) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: OOC/IC Wiz Split. Now, this is not the first time this idea has been proposed, nor do I feel it will be the last. However, I do not think it is in any way advantageous for our staff not to be "allowed" to go IC. If there a problems with a wizard, I think it has been made very clear that every player has the right to speak to Quinn and voice their complaint. He _is_ the final word on this MOO and as such, he will deal with anything problematic. Not a fun task, certainly, but one that is unavoidable. There is a distinction to be made here, between aiding RP and hindering it. I for one do not believe that the simple presence of a progged character will damage the situations the enter into simply because of their status. If that player causes a problem, because of their abilities, they would be just as able to do anything remotely as they can standing within the room in question. My character, IC, is in some ways a recluse - if nothing else, he only shows when he feels like it and that is generally fairly rare - obviously, not all GM characters are this way, but the majority of them do not spend their time wandering the plains looking for things to kill. In order to maintain balance within RP, you do _need_ characters who are powerful, who's actions may not be what everyone expects. The real world does not exist of a whole number of people who are equal in status and neither should this one. People distinguish themselves, either through IC heritage, or combat skill, ect. This variation and color among our patrons lends itself to greater combination of situations and ultimately, better RP. I can see how problems may have arose in the past, regarding players use of OOC abilities while IC. However, I think that making a broad stroke of limitation is at the same time a crippling stroke as it is a premptive measure. If there are individual problems, there are ways to deal with it. If we continue to address our problems with the same light, why not remove the combat system altogether, because occasionally a stronger player beats up on a weaker one without just cause? If the idea is to make a wizard's task easier by dividing OOC and IC functions within a TP between two characters, I can personally assure you that this is actually a damaging move. Dealing with objects from remote can be considerably more tedious and jumping from session to session does not make things simpler in the least. Therefore, I don't see any good reason why the proposed separation should take place. If anyone can offer one, I would be willing to listen. -Stalinger -------------------------- Message 347 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 20 02:36:34 1996 CST From: Tybon (#7159) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: etc. First, in response to Mulder. The core of his argument revolves around 1st circle mage abilities. Kynwal's response can be read in the post immediately following. Mulder's concerns with IC entities with wiz powers parallel some of Stalinger's arguments, so both will be dealt with below. Nowhere have we said that wizards should not be allowed to rp. We have merely argued that people with wizbits should have a character for role-playing separate from the icon they use for building and other wizard functions. In post 337 Kynwal states that 'This [idea] is something that has been debated again and again, much like a dog chasing his tail'. Stalinger reiterates this statement in his post. This implies that there is a persistant and unresolved problem that lends itself to a solution such as Ylanya proposed. If in fact 'this is not the first time this idea has been proposed, [or]...will be the last' as Stalinger suggests, perhaps the time has come to take care of this problem. In response to Stalinger's second argument, it is not the coded abilities of the wizzes that creates problems in role-playing, but rather the power granted them by their ooc status. Some effort is made to disuade ooc players from interacting with ic people because of the disruption this has on role-playing. Regardless of the ic status of the wizard, the ooc status of the wiz-bit is there to disrupt role-play on whatever level. Stalinger's next argument is that 'in order to maintain balance within RP, you do _need_ characters who are powerful, [whose] actions may not be what everyone expects'. Our proposal does not reduce any of the ic power of any of the characters on the moo, it merely separates ic abilities from ooc duties. The fact that wizard powers are not required for powerful, interesting characters is clearly demonstrated by the numerous powerful, interesting characters on the moo who are not wizzes. Moonheart, Red Fang (Yfaolchu), and Elendil are but a few examples. Of course, physical power is not the only type of power available on the moo. Characters such as Tadewi, Zillah, and Yroshi have extensive ic influence which grants them power of a different sort. These, and other characters, have the ability to instigate complex TPs solely on the basis of their ability to role-play. Balth claims that if wizards do not play icly then we 'wouldn't have *any* plots around here'. This argument is echoed by the other wizards who have posted to *ideas, but it is simply not the case. Zillah's kidnappings of Tybon and Yseult, Red Fang's multiple plots, Ybld's possesion, Tadewi's multiple personality disorder, and numerous other TPs were instigated and played out by characters without wizbits. These examples clearly demonstrate that wizbit powers are not required to construct effective and enjoyable TPs on this moo. In the discussion of this issue, wizzes have repeatedly stated that if there is a problem with a wiz we should pester Quinn. This is neither fair to Quinn nor a realistic approach to the problem. Quinn does not have the time to deal with every problem that arises. Occasional conflicts with wizards and severe abuses of power may be dealt with in this manner, but an ongoing and persistant problem such as the recurring conflicts that have brought up this issue cannot be dealt with on an incident-by-incident basis. It is too much to ask of Quinn. If this proposal can solve the problem, and there has been no evidence yet put forth that it could not, then it needs to be implemented. While Quinn has the final say on the matter, discussing it on a public board gives everyone the opportunity to express their opinions before a final decision is made. --Tybon and Ylanya/Kara -------------------------- Message 348 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 20 03:14:41 1996 CST From: Balth (#3746) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: This tedious ongoing thing about IC/OOC wizzen. Well, post #504 was meant to pretty much blow away all of the Wizzes' previous posts. It was a valiant effort, indeed, but falls short of the mark in the following ways: 1. Kynwal's last post, immediately following Mulder's, also pointed out that "Some of the 1st circle powers will still require the aid of a progbit." This is because of the permissions granted only to Wizzen. For example: Say a TP involving a quest for Moonheart's tainted blade is underway, and the characters are not having luck finding the hidden base. If Ylanya and Tybon's plan, which I'm still unclear of how it isn't just like CS policy, was instituted, an OOC Wiz not with the party would have to make up the note that points them in the right direction from afar, as Stalinger was mentioning in his post. This is much more complicated than just being along and doing it. Or moving a creature that has wandered off back so the final confrontation can occur. It is much more difficult to do this from afar, and it will never happen without Wizard perms, for players cannot @move things that are not their own. Summoning, (as it is called) will *never* be removed from Wizperms. The point is, yes, some of the 1st circle abilities will exist without the aid of a Wizbit. But some will not. As for the argument of this is a recurring thing that needs to be addressed right now, this is, IMO, the wrong time to be addressing it. Most of the Wizzen are in the midst of heavy coding right now. To disrupt the system in the middle of all of this building is exactly what we *don't* need at the moment. Now, the post goes on to say that the coded features of Wizzen are not the problem, merely that the OOC status of Wizzen is what causes problems in RP. Well, this clearly doesn't make any sense, since anyone OOC is not involved in the RP going on at the time. " "Regardless the ic status of the wizard, the ooc status of the wiz-bit is there to disrupt the role-play on whatever level." Can you give me an example how? If it isn't the coded powers of a wiz-bit that is disruptive, then what is it? Now, something that this brings up is an issue neither Tybon or Ylanya thought of, or at least they haven't mentioned if they had. If Wizzen have to use two separate characters, there will be a few results from this: 1. Not everyone is able to multi-moo at the same time, I know I'm not able to. It is an either/or situation for me most of the time. So that either means I spend most of my time IC with my IC character, and lose productivity as a Wiz, or 2. I spend most of my time as a Wiz, and stop having fun through means of IC. Folks, I used to dream of having this bit. But I tell you, it's a lot of freaking work. I'm not complaining, I love it. But every once in a while, I like going IC, spreading a few thoughts of wisdom amongst the peoples, then immediately return to coding or building or answering newbie's questions. And I would hate to have to log in and out in order to do that. The next argument brought forth was that wizards are not required for powerful, interesting characters. This may be true to an extent, however, ask Moonheart or Red Fang or Elendil if they have ever been aided by a wiz in a plot, or if Wizzes have ever helped them shape their characters into who they are now. I almost guarantee you the answer will be yes. Red Fang's multiple plots were assisted by wizzes in the rescuing of the good guys, and the persecution of the bad guys. I recall that the players (myself included) were having one helluva time finding red's place. Zillah's trial was done on-the-fly..something I could never have done under what you two propose. No, Wizbits are not required in order to create enjoyable TP's on this moo, however, they are a big help when wanting to add an extra flair on the spot because you thought of a really cool idea. Finally, regarding the 'pestering of Quinn', Tybon and Ylana say that this is "neither fair to Quinn nor a realistic approach to the problem." Well, I hate to inform you of this, kids, but we say that because that's how it works around here. Quinn is the final and *only* say. He tells us to recommend this because we don't have any influence over this type of thing. So whether you like the fact we tell you to @mail quinn with problems or not, you simply have no other option. Stalinger cannot punish me and I cannot punish Stalinger. So, to recap, what Tybon and Ylanya have suggested we do (make Wizzes into two characters) will 1.) slow down building and coding on the moo. 2.) make it more difficult for wizzen to balance thier duties and their recreation. 3.)Take up more database space because we will have to create new characters with their own separate quota amounts. 4.) Simply add to the stress of Wizzen by not allowing them to be present in order to 'improvise on the fly' and help while ICly involving themselves in plots. I know this is a ton of spam, but I'm already growing weary of this issue. Quinn has the final say, no matter what we all jibber and quibble about here on the boards. I personally think that all sides of the argument have been presented, and that if anyone has any other concerns or things they'd like to address, that you @send it to Quinn instead of posting it on the board. Balth -------------------------- Message 349 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 20 20:31:06 1996 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: guest Hello, thought you heard the last of me? Well, I've got another brilliant idea. Why don't we have a subbie guest and a DR guest etc. That way, people can see what it's like before commiting their character to a character class. Just a thought. Your friendly neighborhood subbie, Skywalker. -------------------------- Message 350 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 20 21:21:00 1996 CST From: Yroshi (#6068) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: Guests I know for the Dragon Riders that a person is brought up to the mount for a certain amount of time to see if the player enjoys it and if there RP and other factors are good enough. For the subbies..hmmm..dont know how that would work..seeing as how you would drown if you were not a subbie. Yroshi -------------------------- Message 351 from *ideas (#504): Date: Wed Mar 20 21:25:02 1996 CST From: Skywalker (#6644) To: *ideas (#504) Subject: guests That's the whole idea, make a guest with gills. Get it? Skywalker. --------------------------